MMMark's Whycandoo Room: NCN LOGS    
 NCN LOGS12 comments
11 Apr 2002 @ 15:46, by Mark Smollin

There is some confusion and controversy about the way the logs operate and lacking any policy to guide our community behavior in them, whether creator or commentor. Freedom is a great thing, however it is the abuse of freedom that generates problems and every regulation made to curtail abuse is only an erosion of freedom in itself. I will do my best to clarify the options we have in using the logs.

What is a Personal Log for?
Ming had designated them as "News Logs," but that is restrictive of intent, or at least assumes everyone shares the intention to use them as such. Obviously most of us do not use our Logs in this manner and I personally do not care to post news here when there are better sources and too many of them. Let us just say that Logs are for posting information, things we want to record and/or share.

The Current Viewing Controls
1] Admin - only the owner/administrator (you) can read it
2] Group - only group members can read the news log
3] Member - members can read the news log when they're logged in
4] Public - this news log is open to the general public and to Syndication
*Missing is the option to allow only "Contacts" to view the Log
**Only one of these choices can be selected at a time

The Current Posting Controls
1] Admin - only the owner/administrator can post
2] Member - any member can post new articles
3] Public - anybody can post new articles
*Missing is the option to allow only self & "Contacts" to post to the Log, but since comments are posts, it is a fine point.

New Log Controls Suggestions:
(Have one level of Controls that determine the same and equitable levels (5) for viewing and posting. It will not be fair or just to allow setting different levels for viewing and commenting independently and therefore one set of controls can be eliminated completely.)

1] All controversy will be solved if we make an NCN Log Policy as follows:

"NCN Logs are provided for your personal use and function well as a private diary to your experience on the site. If you choose to make your log public to any set of people, then you must allow everyone in that set of people to comment, therefore NCN provides four (4) graduated levels of public exposure for your Log. Blocking an individual member is not fair or offered as a feature. We believe that you alone are responsible for the content of your Log publicly and you must also be prepared to accept a wide variety of comments from others based on the settings you choose. Please select one of the following levels of exposure for your Log:

a- Admin - only the user can view & post comments
b- Contacts - only the contacts can view & post comments
c- Group - only group members can view & post comments
c- Member - only the members can view & post comments
d- Public - anybody can view & post comments

If you decide to post comments in the logs of others, we strongly urge that you refrain from any form of personal attack or destructive use of words and confine your energy to offering constructive thoughts. The only point to making a comment is to add something to the subject, or encourage the postors with compliment. Critical opinion is not considered valuable. Please comment responsibly."

2] If the current Log configuration is going to be maintained ‘as is’ (not preferable) then we can edit "The Current Posting Controls" to "Comment Controls"
a- Admin - only the user can post comments
b- Contacts - only the contacts can post comments
c- Group - only group members can read the news log
c- Member - only the members can post comments
d- Public - anybody can post comments

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11 Apr 2002 @ 15:53 by mmmark : jazzolog
This post is my response to your request. I hope you find my suggestions acceptable to the principles of democracy and with the greatest respect for maintaining freedom.  

12 Apr 2002 @ 02:02 by jazzolog : Anarchy & Licentiousness
Hopefully this entry will be of help to some folks, Mark. The post does seem like the duty of a webmaster, however (what a despicable term that is: one could envision a great spider hanging over things). Of course Americans hate to read directions; some declare openly and proudly they've never read an instruction sheet---you know, since school anyway. Ming says he can't stand paperwork.
I've often thought Americans fool ourselves when we think people risk their lives to escape despotic tyranny and reach our shining shores to celebrate democracy and freedom. They come here to buy a car. They come here to stand in a supermarket line and look at the tabloids. Is it any wonder, then, that sometimes our newslogs resemble the tabloids---and that they "sell" just as well? One hopes our webmaster takes more loving care of his rack of magazines than the supermarket manager, watching carefully for anything that might leave him liable. Americans do love lawsuits too.  

12 Apr 2002 @ 02:27 by jstarrs : No problem...
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your coherent suggestions. Personally, I don't have any problem with public viewing/comments on my Newslog, but that's only my own feeling.
For those that wish to restrict them, your suggestions are solid...  

12 Apr 2002 @ 04:14 by ming : Suggestions
Thanks for the great suggestions, Mark. My attitude is that there needs to be enough configuration options so that most people can accomplish what they want. So I'd rather have too many options than too few. Like, I don't agree that the Viewing and Posting and Commenting necessarily go together. Btw, the Posting referred to in the configuration is the ability to add whole articles, not just comments.

Anyway, there are scenarios where, for example, a relatively closed group, like a workgroup, is using a newslog to work on something, and they comment on each other's posts. They would like to share their work with a wider group, but don't wish that wider group to be able to add comments too. I think that is perfectly acceptable, and helps to maintain a focus.

The suggestion of having a permission level for people on one's contact list is excellent, and I will implement that when I have a chance.

As to viewing comments, I think it will have to need a different set of permissions than the general viewing and posting permissions. It depends very much of the flavor of the log. If the owner mainly posts information, and the comments mostly add more information, then it would be most natural that they went together. But if the owner posts public information, and the commenters post intimate, inside discussions, then they probably shouldn't.

Note that people might have very different reasons for using a newslog, whatever it is called. Like, I'm considering shifting my focus towards speaking to a broader group on the outside, rather than to a small group of insiders here. Mostly because I'd like to write about what's actually going on for me, rather than everything necessarily being an entry in a group discussion.  

13 Apr 2002 @ 01:23 by mmmark : Reply to Suggestions
Glad you find something useful in my post Ming. In order to maintain equitable and fair use of the logs, I believe the access to post must be equal to the right of others to respond. That's why we have the words, "private & public." Our constitution does not allow slander or false defamation of character and requires us to support our claims. If an NCN meber wants the exposure publically, they mus be willing to face the music in response - anything else is prejudicial, unfair, disconnected and furthers or mortal suffering for acting irresponsibly. I knew you had plenty of reasons why things are the way they are, but I was trying to make it all work better and simpler. If there are posts relative to Groups - then groups should have a separate log system that does not confuse or compromis the rights of individuals and is not relevant to my initially posted suggestions. Group Logs are the kind of tools (among others) that groups need but do not have.  

13 Apr 2002 @ 01:59 by jazzolog : Commenting on Reply (and Replay)
My log allows me unlimited, unbridled space to "support" my claims. But if I decide to create an article devoted to the perceived personality disorders of---oh...let's say Mark Smollin, because he wears an apple on his head---and at the same time, use the Block Feature at NCN to prevent him from answering, right there and then, and justifying the long and distinguished history of people who wear apples on their head, then...I say...then what I'm doing is flaming (that's "flaming," not flemming). There may be wonderful reasons for me to do that, and there may come results that are uplifting to all, but it's still not really fair to Mark...or his apple. A log is like a newspaper, and if my journal denies space for reply to someone named in my column, I am abusing freedom of the press.

And I'll add a P.S. of agreement to what Shakti says below. It is a very hard and complex issue. All matters of civil rights are. A warm and loving heart is the chief ingredient.  

13 Apr 2002 @ 02:50 by shawa : I agree with that...
People named in the Log should have a right to respond IN the log (comments), otherwise it´s not balanced (freedom of press). I think this discussion is very important to clarify these issues. The "newspaper" image is a fairly close one to what is actually happening. So the Logs are a sort of "private/public" space, a sort of interface between private and public. It´s complex, I can see how people can be confused about it.  

13 Apr 2002 @ 07:27 by sindy : just to say..
a friendly good day,not much time left to spear
but know am close anyway.. hehehe, have a good weekend dearest MmARK*  

13 Apr 2002 @ 13:26 by jazzolog : Spearing Time
Sindy means "spare"...or does she? ;-)  

13 Apr 2002 @ 16:16 by ov : These logs look like conferences
and the articles are like topics, and the comments are like the post within that topic. The thing that is missing is the navigation features and other tools that allow one to manage the volume.

I make some comments here and there. I don't expect, and in fact I kind of hope that nobody responds to those comments because then there is the obligation to respond back. In order to do this I have to click through everything just to see what has been added since the last time I clicked through everything. I'm used to having this information laid out for me within ten seconds of when I log on, not after a half hour of clicking around. So maybe I should keep a notebook on the side and write down where I've posted, and where I might expect a response and where I should check back. But like I said, I'm used to having that information provided to me within ten seconds of log in, and if I have to draw little paper maps on the side it's not going to happen.


20 Apr 2002 @ 16:31 by simpleman : EDUCATION
I like the newslogs, but cannot keep up with them all. I do think members need to educate themselves in the use of newslogs. I also believe that if someone wants to air out a conflict in their newslog that they be prepared for whatever comments are made, although I would hope they resolve their conflicts in another, more appropriate area.  

30 Apr 2002 @ 22:02 by magical_melody : Options, Opinions, Organization, Oh MY!
Gees, what timing! I just studied this section and feature for the first time today before stopping in here late tonight. I did not realize I could post a link that made my newslog visible to the non-member public. I decided to change my choices to public on all counts, because I emailed my list to share my newslog for a time with friends and colleagues out of the system. I like all the options, and I find that Mark seems to serve as a catalyst for clarifying how the three BIG O's are handled in this site. Mark, you also get a lot of comments to your logs as you engage members to dialogue and you initiate connectivity in the community. Good for you Bro! Love, Alana  

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