|N Marion Hage: Love is the Key|
49 comments30 Apr 2006 @ 22:05 by poetsong : Context
I hope nobody thinks this is a political comment, because it isn't intended that way. I love- without reservation- some people that have very different views of the world than I do. Once, I was quick to judge people; then learned that people I disliked had a very beautiful side. Then I'd feel terrible, having seem them through a narrow scope.
The more I've seen this happen, the more I've learned to throw off anger when someone shows a political side different than mine. I've learned to see people as multi-dimensional.
A song by Sting addressed the west during the Cold War- bringing up the point that "The Russians love their children too"
I am deeply concerned with the state of the world; and one of the tools of hate is to demonize a people or group. If I in turn feel this is justifiable, then I in turn can't speak against it when it happens in reverse. I would rather love my enemy than hate them; despite the fact they may hate me without knowing me. Why? My goal is not to be overcome by evil; but to overcome evil with good. I have to believe in something so absolute, or I become another victim of the "Anger Generation"
I don't like any vendictive terms, labeling terms. I don't care if they come from someone whose viewpoint on politics or religion mirror my own. In demonizing and despising people, they are differing from my viewpoint, which is that every living person on earth has intrinsic value. They may be "lost" "Ignorant", and even hate me. That's a sad fact. I can't change that.
All I can do is stay true to what I believe, and hopefully if I believe the right thing; it will become an infectious viewpoint that sells itself.
With love, - Oh, and respect-
3 May 2006 @ 09:55 by Vector8 @188.8.131.52 : Politics
Just last week I had a conversation with a friend who asked me if I was going to vote this Thursday at our local elections in the UK. I said no. "Why not? she said. " Black people died to get the vote and you're not voting?"
I told her I didn't identify myself as a colour; I am a free spirit.
I guess it’s about playing the game. The game states that you have to be on a certain team be it family, class, race, gender, political party, religion, nationality, sexuality, etc. God forbid that you should refuse to see yourself as a label!
As for the elections, how can I support one candidate when I'm on everybody's side? When they have a ballot paper where you can vote for all the candidates, I will vote.
At the same time I understand where my friend is coming from. When I was a student I was very much an activist and belonged to various groups. I told my friend to support whatever is right for her. I'll support her all the way.
Peace and love,
3 May 2006 @ 15:37 by rayon : "Once upon a time
when lives were long, compassion ruled" a quote from one of my poems. I am sure that people in history in amongst certain peoples had great respect and love for one another. When travelling Ethiopian Airlines, I was awestruck by the tonal quality of the ancient Ahmereic language they used to speak to each other in the gangway on the plane, for all the world looking as if they had just crossed a desert with a camel and where greeting a long lost friend. There was both reservation and enquiry, excitement with hope, in the voices, showing respect and love simultaneously. As my thesis was the investigation of the poetical quality of historical language, this was a huge interest. And what a beautiful race they are too, one wonders how much changed they may not be from Eygptian times?
One can do both in voting too, once I volunteered my efforts for one party, while feeling quite free to give my vote to the Greens, whom I knew would be thin on the ground for numbers. So I worked for the party sure to get in, with many votes, and gave my vote to another so I could sleep nights.
Nate, there is something utterly beguiling about your writing, which evokes many responses from within one, it is like a chocolate shop, one has to make choices, cannot have them all, and these are my two for now. Thank you. Ni.
3 May 2006 @ 15:40 by poetsong : I'm curious what made you change?
If you don't mind my asking. That's an interesting transition, and I'd be interested in knowing more about your view?
I think I understand the desire to separate from the madness- politics/spin doctors/party perspectives.(we/ us vs them) In one sense, I feel that we are always best served by loyalty to convictions, rather than loyalty to a party. And we are best served by thinking free of pressures to conform.
3 May 2006 @ 15:44 by rayon : Poetsong, to whom
do you address your query? I have scanned and it is not obvious.
3 May 2006 @ 15:54 by poetsong : Nraye, you are so sweet. Always!
I think you benefit from a global perspective- and from a perspective built outside the "Collective comfort zone."
I grew up in the United States, which is not like some might imagine. The perspectives from one end of this country to the other vary greatly. But we are more of a blended culture in most places than trans-cultural, meaning, throughout history, various cultures melted into one. But this has been changing.
Europe has historically been more trans-cultural, distinct cultures crossing paths. What I'm getting at is that there are Archetypes- profoundly unique collective ways of thinking we grow up with in whatever culture we are in.
America is most comfortable with cultures that blend into the one. People come here, grow to like baseball and hotdogs. And if they like America (the Archetype)- they are eventually welcomed. The US is uncomfortable with cultures that come here and don't assimilate. People feel threatened, which impedes them from seeing people as people, but "Imigrants".
So, people who get out of America- seeing people eye-to-eye apart from the strong Archetypes, come away seeing other cultures differently. Instead of seeing them as a threat, they see them as something beautiful.
And when I say this, I mean going into the world, not as a "Tourist", which creates it's own unique and false view of other people. For a variety of reasons Tourist Meccas can present a false face of a nation. - both bitter people that dislike tourists, and people who suck-up and act like tourists would expect because that is their livelihood.
But this is why in some places there is no real harmony amongst groups, but suspicion and friction, and why it is so important for people to get a multi-dimensional view of other people- watch them with their children- how they treat company- that they laugh at jokes, and cry when hurt. Build on the basic priciples of being a human, and dress/language/ and other differences become smaller.
3 May 2006 @ 19:03 by poetsong : My first question was to Vector
LOL, Nraye, your post came in right between my reading Vector's comment and my posting an answer. All the same, the point still stands on its own, because political and non-political people still must decide how to view other people. We have reasons why we might lean one way or another on issues, but the question of people's value, and whether we see them as having value, doesn't sway because of whatever political/religious/non-political or non-religious view we might have.
It interests me why people go from one way of thinking to another, but even so, whatever view we have, however strong, we should be warry of losing sight of the central issue- the value of a person is foremost- and doesn't decrease because they don't share our view.
Our view may be a better view- or only in our imagination- and the temptation may be to get angry because someone doesn't get what we think we see.
If this other person was our spouse, our child, our parent, does it change the equation? What if they seem to us a total stranger?
I'm being honest; some people tempt me to anger, or I should say, their hard and fast views more than who they are. Anger begets anger. If they are pissed-off about some issue, especially disagreeing with my view, I'm tempted to be pissed off.
If the whole world justifies getting pissed-off, we have a pissy world. And who needs yellow rain?
So, I have to set some kind of standard in my heart. Do I allow myself to get in a feeding frenzy of anger? I have to separate views from people having value. If I lose that, and we all justify our anger, it makes for a world that dumbs itself down in a vortex of trying to out piss each other (excuse my example).
But I wanted to use a metaphor that doesn't sound lovely, because anger, in general, isn't a lovely thing, and is dangerous to express without some sort of means of control. Where do we draw the line in our justifying our anger? I say, love will look for a reason to forgive rather than have revenge. Love will look to turn the other cheek for the sake of peace, not in some foolish symbol, but in order to hopefully set an example others can follow. - love can rise above the insanity pressing in from around the world.
I can "CHOOSE", not to dislike and not to hate- and still keep who I am, and believe in something. I don't disappear, and my being a person with a view doesn't change. I just set a level of priorities. And having this point of view is necessary for any hope in a world with people of differing viewpoints. A world slow to anger and quick to forgive has a better chance.
4 May 2006 @ 10:11 by rayon : So Right, Tourist
is a real problem. One of the single things contributing to the US tourist, I have often thought, is the very limited amount of annual holiday given to most working people. Just two weeks. In Africa, it was 6 weeks, in UK here is minimum 4 weeks, but I have 6. So I wonder if you being such an incredibly fair person, Poetsong, might accept this factor in mitigation of the huge trueism you have touched upon of your people, in point 2 up from here. Will return to read point 1 up later with a newness all the better to see with!!!! Lots of Love, my LOL.
4 May 2006 @ 12:54 by poetsong : Nraye first
It's weird. I even thought of my use of the term "Amercia", because when as children, we sung "God Bless America", we didn't think of South Amercia, Central America, or Canada. We though of the U.S, and so we used "America" as another word for the United States. Perhaps we are not alone with this kind of thinking; but we always saw distinct lines. Us and them.
Now, to be fair, we liked a lot of "thems", and perhaps always felt connected to Britain, to some extent Italy, and other parts of Europe. We felt more Europe connected than connected to countries in our own Hemisphere. Perhaps we saw Canada as somewhat like the north border of the U.S, sort of our wilderness territory.- not that they would like that. However, for many Americans, if asked what Canadians are like, we see a country with blurred edges, not in a negative way. As a culture we don't see a distinct shape, maybe because Canada is a bit fragmented. And it has so much wilderness territory. (By the way, I've never met a Canadian I didn't like)
But Canadians could have just as soon been from Maine or Portland.- like distant cousins. Then again, I've never met an English person I didn't like, or french person...etc.
However, I have this thing for the British Isles. An English person could be cursing me, and I'd still be thinking, "I love that accent."
I may not make sense, but it was just a different way of seeing the world, and I try to comprehend the view of the world through another's scope.
4 May 2006 @ 13:06 by poetsong : EJ/ Vector
So glad I asked, because it gave me a chance to know you more, and see you in a new light. I relate so much to what you are saying; because many of the answers I've found in life came from striving to figure out who I am, and if there was any meaning to life. I was a stubborn pit bull of a kid that wouldn't let go until I found an answer. - essential to growth.
I imagine you are rather insightful. People who come from wounded places are often more sensitive, empathetic to the feelings of others.
Overcoming woundedness can be daunting, and it was for me. My first memories of life were dark. Yet, now I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything, because they were essential stepping-stones to becoming me.
As far as "Who we are" I see two parts- our giftings, abilities, talents. That part of our nature is a gift- that thing we long for. For you it may be to write and touch lives. It is for me. It's what we long for, and deeply feel is our destiny.
But then there is the flexible part of who we are. Most people say, "This is me" in the sense of justifying flaws. And "I can't change". That futile part of us is something we can change, and with insight and understanding can turn around.
So, there are two parts. The part we want to set free, and the part we want to be freed from. And it is essential to distinguish between the two. I want to have places to express my gifts. But I don't want to be a futile thinker who bangs into wall after wall- like I was once.
Yet, either way, guilt and shame is not a means of change, but of being imprisoned. We are set free through changes in our point of view. We see ourselves differently. I once said, "If I gave myself the same slack I gave everyone else, I wouldn't be so hard on myself". And I decided not to beat myself up about things anymore. I didn't justify my flaws, but realized I was a work in progress; and would go about figuring out what I needed to learn.
I'm so glad you shared, and hope you feel free to share more. I like what you've told me so far, and imagine you have much to say to benefit many who might read over our shoulders.
4 May 2006 @ 14:23 by EJ @184.108.40.206 : To change or not to change?
I appreciate where you're coming from Nate. You wrote:
[[As far as "Who we are" I see two parts- our giftings, abilities, talents. That part of our nature is a gift- that thing we long for. For you it may be to write and touch lives. It is for me. It's what we long for, and deeply feel is our destiny.
But then there is the flexible part of who we are. Most people say, "This is me" in the sense of justifying flaws. And "I can't change". That futile part of us is something we can change, and with insight and understanding can turn around.]]
Why try to change anything? I only know my real self is the one infinite self. It is from this self that I express ideas, life, etc and yet this self never changes. So while it's interesting to share experiences I also know that none of it matters. None of my experiences have any impact on my true self.
There is no need for me to change who I am when I can focus on being the self that is unchanging.
By the way I already have a blog here at newciv as Enocia Joseph/Vector8 http://www.newciv.org/mem/prof-newslog.php?amode=standard&xmode=show_log&time=1146752021 and I have another blog http://enociaj.blogspot.com.
Enjoying chatting to you.
4 May 2006 @ 15:43 by poetsong : Thanks for the link. I'll check it out
"Why try to change anything?" This is such a profound question.
Why step out of the way of a bus or a train? Wouldn't fate take over, and we are what we are- squished, or the bus veers and we live? Most of what I will say registers somewhere in the human heart because we do have an inner compass. And growth is learning to hear that inner compass, and discern its value in guiding us through life.
Fatalistic people believe they have one destiny and one course and cannot change that. And as such, become victims. They don't move out of the way of the bus. That bus can be a bully that controls them. It can be a sense that I cannot help my children when the school is against them. It can be that feeling that I am stuck in a job or hopeless place in life.
It may seem that there is a wisdom in surrender to fate rather than changing fate; but when you look at the voices that changed the world, they often made choices, even unaware they were making them. They defined some goal, and set a standard of where they wanted to be and what they wanted to do.
Now, let's draw a line of demarcation. Place fear on one side and joy on the other. Place hope on one side and despair on the other. Place anger on one side, and peace on the other. Which side do you wish to stand on? Which side do I wish to stand on.
We may even know and try to stand on one side or the other. But what happens to us when Life Storms come into our life? Are we now helpless? We get fired, hit by a car, lose a loved one. Are we fated to despair, or can we turn around events, face them and overcome them?
Most know what we want out of life, but feel helpless to obtain it. And this is like a reed blown in the wind, helpless to stand against the tide of the wind.
If I say, "But I'm just a fearful person and cannot change this. I have anxiety attacks and I can't sustain relationships, and I cannot sustain jobs...I'm helpless." I may feel that's true. It may be what has always happened, and what we fear will always happen. But is it really true?
What I'm saying is practical for those people in those kinds of situations. Can they, a fearful person, become a confidant peaceful person? Yes. Should they want to? Yes. Is that being untrue to who they really are? No. Anxiety is not who they are, but a trap that binds them and prevents them from becoming who they know they should be.
Perhaps what I'm saying makes more sense to someone who hates where they are and what they've become. Whole people might not relate to hating where you are in life, and wishing you could turn things around.
And for me, realizing these things changed me profoundly. I feel a sense of destiny, not futility. I plan to change the world, not be swept away by circumstances.
Have you noticed there is a charisma that surrounds people that know where they're going? Yet, we do not feel the same confidence in people who waiver? Why is this? Because deep inside, we feel a sense that there is a destiny, and connect to people who also feel the same.
4 May 2006 @ 17:27 by Vector8 @220.127.116.11 : Why Change Anything
It's interesting you used stepping away from a bus as an analogy. I've been run over by a car before, and I’ve had other near misses.
When I was 10 years old I was run over by a car. Just as I was falling I heard a voice in my head telling me it wasn't happening, that the accident was a dream and not real. At the time I did not understand what that meant and it felt real enough to me. I had cuts and bruises and felt some pain. It turned out there was an ambulance behind the car which took me to the hospital. That was a dream come true for me as I'd always wanted to ride in an ambulance. :)
Second, the woman who ran me over was a Sister at the local hospital on her way to work, so I was well looked after. I only spent a few hours in the hospital anyway and I was sent home. It also turned out that the same Sister was my cousin's boyfriend's aunt. They got married years later. So everything worked out.
I believe that if I had taken on board what the Voice had told me that the accident wasn't real, I would have got up and been totally unaffected by the accident. Years later I heard about a Christian Scientist man who ran over a boy. The man affirmed it was impossible for him to have an accident where Divine Love is present. The boy got up and was perfect; it was as if the accident never happened.
Years ago I was nearly hit by a van but an invisible hand pulled me out of the way. Two years ago I was nearly run over. I was suddenly aware that there was no way I was going to be hit. I had all the time in the world to step out of the way and I was fine.
So you’re right. In a reality of fear shit happens but that doesn’t mean I do nothing. I simply step out of the fear and into my right mind that is Love where I know it is impossible for anyone to be injured, which reverses the effect.
As to what I mean by "Why change anything?" here’s an analogy.
Imagine you're the richest man ever. You've got so much money that even if you spend 1 billion a day, you won't be making a dent on what you have. Imagine someone steals 1000 billion from you? What’s the point of going looking for the thief when you've got infinitely more money available?
Enjoying our dialogue.
4 May 2006 @ 19:30 by poetsong : What a wonderful conversation
I really enjoy your comments.
In the question about the money. The issue depends on how I view money, or anything for that matter. If it is my money then it is mine to do with as I choose, and it's relative value changes depending on my means. Whether its a drop in the bucket or a crushing blow.
However, if I see that I am a steward of the money or anything that I've been given in this life, then my view changes, and so does my response.
As a steward, I'm accountable for what is placed in my care. Is that money for the sick, the hungry, the naked? If so, then they've stollen from them, not from me. I will hurt for the hungry, the sick and the naked. However, if I lost the money because of foolishness, then I will feel more sorrow. If I did everything that was reasonable to do to protect the money in my care, then I will not feel guilt, just sadness.
My responce will be relative to how I view the loss. I am a Steward of resources and not an owner.
5 May 2006 @ 08:49 by Enocia @18.104.22.168 : The Money
Poetsong, the money is an analogy for infinite love and the Perfection that we all are. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter what is taken away from Perfection, Perfection is always Perfect. So I don't try to change anything because my essence which is Perfection was never touched by the experience in the first place. Do you see where I'm going with this?
5 May 2006 @ 09:47 by Enocia @22.214.171.124 : A related article
I received an email from a friend about a previous article I wrote. This article happens to demonstrate what I mean by "Why Change Anything?" http://theoneinall.blogspot.com/2005/07/just-say-now.html
6 May 2006 @ 20:02 by poetsong : Interesting point.
There's so many ways this conversation can go. Let me rephrase one dilema I see in the question, "How much does our point of view influence the world and the Universe?"
Can we control destiny through "Will Power"- "Correct Thinking"- "Unwavering Positive Thinking- energy-"?
This begs the question, "Just how much influence do we have?" Can we stop illness? Can we turn the sun on a reverse access?" Then why do people die at all; or have we all failed to understand the power inside us? Some would say "yes", but the reality is that all die. Again, some would say this is mankind's learning curve. They just don't get it yet, and when they do- problems melt away. Life is endless. Graduation day.
I can't change my gray hair to dark without dye. None of us would grow gray if we can will it away. So, obviously there is a set of parameters we all walk in. We may improve our lives, make it last a tad longer, be a bit less frustrating; but ultimately we all face mortality- the end of this life- which I believe is not an evil, but something that forces us to look at "What else?" I believe a seed of eternity exists in our hearts. We know this world is not what it should be. We are not what we should be. And this futility is what leads us to growth if we don't try to poison ourselves with pleasure to numb our fear.
The farmer wills rain for the flowers, while the other wills sunshine for the parade. Do wills cancel out? Does the prayer of one make the other void? What of the will of the germ that wants to invade our bodies, take control and multiply?
I will not discount the influence of thinking over destiny.- but it only exists to a point. Spiritual law/ sowing and reaping, blessings and curses. There is a spiritual world. There are spiritual laws. Yet, for all our positive thinking, we go the way of all animals.- I don't say this is the end. But in terms of the particular focus on "This life", we delay the wall, but will all face it.
However, I will say from experience that countless people who believe a variety of things, some believe in God/ some believe they are god/ some believe in no god; They have all tried versions of this "mind over matter- faith over matter- energy over matter" and failed. It might have worked in some things, some ways. If they saw results, it was always to a point. Then what? Why didn't they get the job? Why couldn't they make their unfaithful spouse change? Why didn't their child get healed? Those questions get bigger the more we do see answers to prayer, or however a person sees these impossible events happening. Because it comes back to why did it work then, and not now?
The easy answer is to say, "You didn't have enough energy, enough positive will power, enough faith" and in a sense, blame them for failing.
The truth is, good and bad come to all, rain and sunshine. I've seen people with alot of positive belief. Miracle workers die of diseases wondering "Why me?"
I believe in miracles, have seen miracles, have seen healings, have had healings. I do believe there is much more to life than what the scientific mind believes. However, we all come to the end of ourselves in a variety of ways; and I don't see this as failure.
We grow much from pain, and probably more than from success. People that have all success and no pain begin to talk like "He Man" or spoiled brats that always get their way. Yet, in our lack of wisdom, we would ask for a life with all pleasure, and no pain, and become some whining child on "My Sweet Sixteen", who gets angry at daddy because he only gave her six cars and not seven.(Not to say all are brats, or even they won't grow into wise adults)
We should not give in to futility. Futility (where I/me/mine ends) is also a tool of learning and growth. I believe/hope to change the world in a very positive way with my life. Yet, I come to the end of me, and ask, "What lies beyond?" Those "whys" and "why nots" are essential to our growth.
8 May 2006 @ 14:45 by Enocia @126.96.36.199 : Living by Principle
[[The easy answer is to say, "You didn't have enough energy, enough positive will power, enough faith" and in a sense, blame them for failing.
The truth is, good and bad come to all, rain and sunshine. I've seen people with alot of positive belief. Miracle workers die of diseases wondering "Why me?" ]]
I hear you, poetsong and understand where you're coming from. I've had that belief.
For me it is about having a principle, truth, a core belief that I live by rain or shine (excuse the pun) J I have a core belief that God is all there is and God is Good, eternal, and life itself.
Living by truth principles is exactly like mathematics. I have a formula and I test that formula out. I don't impose that formula on anyone. I respect everyone's beliefs. Can I be ill when God is all there is? If I am then it simply means I'm conflicted in my beliefs. In other words, 2 + 2 is always 4. So I persist by knowing what I believe to be true for me. Can I grow old when God is unchanging? Everything has to be tested. How this is done is what life is about trusting in my belief.
Thank you for your willingness to be open and share your views.
9 May 2006 @ 01:38 by poetsong : EJ, you put things very well
I like math and logic as well.-to a degree, as long as I don't have to do tests anymore. I'm not always very good at either, but understand the process of trying to sort through things, seeing how things add up.
I'll share bits and pieces. I look at my life as a spiritual journey of sorts. Even as an atheist, I wasn't blowing off questions of spiritual reality. I was just coming to terms with "Fairness", and questions of why the just suffer, and the wicked get off scott free. I had questions of values; hypocracy in religion, and so many things. My road to where I am was hardly direct; and I searched for many answers to questions that haunted me.
Again, they weren't an attempt to duck the questions. In truth, 1+1 don't always add up in the spiritual realm for one reason; because we can only count what we can understand. In logic, one apple, and one apple equal two apples. But apples aren't static. They decay from the moment they drop. So, apples are a temporary reality. Mankind still needs boundaries and metaphors to comprehend spiritual truth. So, we may talk about seeds, apples, water. These are needed. However, revelation of truth does not always come by logic.
So, there is a learning curve with spiritual laws. Do curses exist? Can they pass down a family tree? Can they be broken? How do people get them? Can a nation be cursed?
Sorry, let's get on a positive bent. Do Blessings exist? Can they pass down a family tree? Can they be obtained? How do people get them? Can a nation be blessed? The answer to both questions is essential, because people can bring things into their lives they don't want without being aware. They can miss out on blessings simply by not knowing how to get them.
9 May 2006 @ 12:51 by EJ @188.8.131.52 : Maths
[[Again, they weren't an attempt to duck the questions. In truth, 1+1 don't always add up in the spiritual realm for one reason; because we can only count what we can understand. In logic, one apple, and one apple equal two apples. But apples aren't static. They decay from the moment they drop. So, apples are a temporary reality. Mankind still needs boundaries and metaphors to comprehend spiritual truth. So, we may talk about seeds, apples, water. These are needed. However, revelation of truth does not always come by logic.]]
I'm in total agreement. In the spiritual realm 1 + 1 is not 2, it is always 1. 50 x 50 = 1. I'm only using maths as a metaphor, not that I'm any good at maths or was ever that interested in maths. I was crap at maths in school. In my final year exams called O'Levels (now GCSE) in the UK, I only passed after the third attempt.
And yes we're so used to putting things in boxes which is so not how Reality works. As I see it, Reality is unknown. As usual I've written a piece about this drawing on Startrek for my inspiration. :)http://enociaj.blogspot.com/2006/05/unknown-territory-causeless-cause.html
You can read someone's stuff and resonate with their experience but when it comes down to the crunch can you apply this realisation to your life? This is not directed at you specifically, it's just rhetorical. It's good to ask the questions. I love the fact that you're curious.
Life is infinite, a wonder, my friend.
Truly enjoying our exchanges.
9 May 2006 @ 21:03 by poetsong : I'm enjoying it too.
Well, I think I've learned not to pretend to know what I don't know. I've also come to realize I shouldn't pretend not to know what I do know.
I'm not without answers, and I'm not without questions. But I felt it best to neither fabricate or follow blindly.
I don't believe all reality is unknown. What I do believe however is that we can know in part, and the difference between blindness and seeing in part is immense. One has no clue. The other can have many clues.
However, there is also a lens filter through which we see reality. That is our motivation. Is it love, is it a fear-based need to control and dominate? Example, even in our conversations, I could come with a show-off, impress-people attitude, where I want them to see me as this great know-it-all thinker. If that's my base, then everything I see through my filter is clouded. It's like poluted water.
The higher the motivation- love being the highest standard, the better the filter through which the world is seen. The reason for doing what we do changes, and for what we say changes.
Now, back to resonating and application. I know somethings resonate with hearers. And the reverse can be true. In a sense its the spiritual dimension of life squeeking through. We can connect, but this is true of good and evil.
Two theives can immediately connect in a crowd. In spirit they sense "Someone like me." So, connecting is both good and bad, and not always the gold-standard of something being right.
Still, I believe we have somewhat of a compass in our hearts. When we see true love demonstrated, something in us goes, "Yes...that's the way it should be." We can tell when someone is trying to con us- if we are pure in heart. However, if we are not pure in heart, we are wide open to being conned- because we are looking for something and would take it by dishonest means if that's what it came to.
Let's take a few words used here- love, peace. They are words. They can be slight or deep. Some say "peace" but are filled with hate and bitterness. To them peace could be, "If everyone leaves me alone and gets off my case, and lets me do what I want, I can be agreeable."
To another, Peace is, "My life is in a storm. I've been betrayed, physically assaulted. Those closest to me were taken, and yet I have a calm knowing that good will come from this; and I will not be swept away."
It's important to define things. However, the first peace will not resonate with me. I know it's a rather shallow definition that suites a spoiled child. The other is a mature peace that resonates with me.
10 May 2006 @ 12:11 by EJ @184.108.40.206 : Peace and stuff
Shall we try and break the world record of how long we could keep this thread going? :)
[[I'm not without answers, and I'm not without questions. But I felt it best to neither fabricate or follow blindly.
I don't believe all reality is unknown. What I do believe however is that we can know in part, and the difference between blindness and seeing in part is immense. One has no clue. The other can have many clues.]]
For me it's about coming to a place where I don't know. Of course the real "I" always knows as She is unchanging while at the same time She doesn't know as every moment is new. Surrendering to the unknown is letting the known/unknown "I" take over. Then I don't worry about how things are going to unfold as I know there are a zillion of ways possible. Then the "I" reveals what is, which I write about and apply in my life until the next day when I get a new way of being. :)
[[Still, I believe we have somewhat of a compass in our hearts. When we see true love demonstrated, something in us goes, "Yes...that's the way it should be." We can tell when someone is trying to con us- if we are pure in heart. However, if we are not pure in heart, we are wide open to being conned- because we are looking for something and would take it by dishonest means if that's what it came to.]]
Funny you should say that. About a couple of hours ago while I was walking to the bus stop a car pulled up beside me. A man asked me if I'd like a cheap laptop. I said no. :) I had a feeling it was red hot. They turned the car round and sped off. At the end of the road was a police car. I'm simple, but I'm not that simple. :)
[[Let's take a few words used here- love, peace. They are words. They can be slight or deep. Some say "peace" but are filled with hate and bitterness. To them peace could be, "If everyone leaves me alone and gets off my case, and lets me do what I want, I can be agreeable."
To another, Peace is, "My life is in a storm. I've been betrayed, physically assaulted. Those closest to me were taken, and yet I have a calm knowing that good will come from this; and I will not be swept away."
It's important to define things. However, the first peace will not resonate with me. I know it's a rather shallow definition that suites a spoiled child. The other is a mature peace that resonates with me. ]]
I have to say I can resonate with the second example. At the same time I know Peace is as tangible as this computer. I only have to know that it is present and call it forth.
It's good to do what works for one, this is how we can all be true to ourselves. In the next moment, who knows unless of course you do know. :)
What's your website/blog?
Have a lovely day.
10 May 2006 @ 20:57 by poetsong : How long can this go?
I have a high tollerance for deep conversation. How deep do you want to go? LOL.
We could find two different ways to say the same things. And so, we can debate "What is true to self?" Who is your real "I"?
There is somewhat of a lifelong quest to these answers. But also, since we are always growing (some) we are people in transition.
I respond to you as I see you; and listen to hear who you are. Perhaps you are like me, "Complex?" I see myself as a "Push-me/Pull-you", the mythical creature in Dr Dolittle. I tend to draw people in, and I think allienate people. That's never by design. It's just that I seem serious much of the time, always like to talk about deep things, meaning of life things. I think people like thinking to a point; then they get uncomfortable and back away.
You seem the same; very introspective. You seem to have intense thoughts, and try to comprehend the meaning of life. All the same, I know from experience, you also have a less complex side that is very much who you are. You simply want to be accepted and loved. We all do. (Of course you can tell me if I'm off base)
About me- I'm a deep thinker. All my life I've been trying to solve riddles. At times I've learned to turn off the "Deep Thoughts" and just enjoy life as a gift. There's a thread here for "World-Savers". By nature, something in me wants to do that.
Well, any native tendency is both a weakness and a strength. Someone who cares deeply for people, who wants to help can also find themselves meddling, getting involved in issues we weren't meant to.- sometimes that's me. I love people, and realize, many don't want help. And most of the time they do quite fine without me.
So, enough about the great "I",- sounds like Sauron-teases. How do you see yourself? Are you like me? Just curious.
11 May 2006 @ 10:41 by Enocia @220.127.116.11 : How do I see myself?
How long is a piece of string? This is an expression we use in the UK when something is so vast you can't begin to explain it? :)http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/23/messages/140.html
I believe complexity is of the ego/personality which has weaknesses and strengths. You and I share the same "I" where the "intense thoughts" you refer to emerge. How this "I" is made manifest as Enocia/EJ is quite simple: love.
I love having a laugh; I love jokes and making up jokes; I love reading; I love writing; I love chocolate; I love going on long walks; I love people and being with people; I love solitude; I love Startrek; I love Mary Poppins; I love the media; I love my body; I love pondering on ideas/Truth; I love life; I love God; I love the Internet; I love Vimto (fruit cordial drink); I love playing with friends on the Internet; I love long soaks in the bath; I love having realisations that relate to life now; I love being practical; I love.
It's interesting that this post is called "Love is the Key." I've been thinking that, for me, this dialogue has been to connect and express love. Thank you for playing.
Have a lovely day.
Ps: I’ve just discovered this morning that I am not a Geek, thank God. See http://www.innergeek.us/geek-test.html
11 May 2006 @ 13:36 by vector8 : Finally...
Now I can see your profile. I've been posting comments without logging in; posting outside the box, get it? :) which doesn't give access to one's profile.
Catch you later,
11 May 2006 @ 17:14 by poetsong : What do I love?
A world without walls, something that can only exist when through love, people will respect boundaries without fences.
I love music, and playing guitar. I like writing- just finished an Epic Fantasy series, and hope to find an agent. I just love deep people- not existential- how many angels can dance on a pin- deep, but honest deep.
12 May 2006 @ 09:20 by vector8 : Boundaries
[[A world without walls, something that can only exist when through love, people will respect boundaries without fences.]]
I was pondering yesterday how though I love what I love, I am also aware that one can put boundaries around oneself by restricting one's love. The way I resolve this paradox is to still have personal loves while loving all impersonally. So every morning when I wake up I send a thought of love embracing the whole universe.
Music is good. I don't play any musical instruments myself. Actually I did have a toy piano and could play songs from "The Sound of Music." Does that count as a musical instrument?
Did you know that one could "see" or "feel" the music as essence being expressed through the musician. I love watching "American Idol." Most of the time I can feel that the music is not flowing as it should. People block the flow with their beliefs that they have to do certain exercises for their voice or to sing in a certain way, etc. If only people would just let go and let the music be. http://simplyenocia.blogspot.com/2006/01/let-yourself-go.html
Epic fantasy? Sounds intriguing. Let me know when you get it published.
[[I just love deep people- not existential- how many angels can dance on a pin- deep, but honest deep.]]
I love exploring existential ideas i.e. as in realisations based on experience (see definition of existential http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=existential). Every insight and realisation I have stems from my life experience. I see myself as a scientist and life as an experiment. Ideas have to be tested otherwise they are just nice words; anyone can channel wonderful ideas but are you walking your talk? http://www.powertoshare.com/dropzone/articles/2004/07/nice-words-but-so-what/
Enjoying our chat immensely. BTW, I googled the "longest thread ever" and was amazed at the length people would go to achieve this. Haha. We’ve got our work cut out, mate.
Have a wonderful day.
13 May 2006 @ 18:40 by poetsong : Hi EJ
Music- if you clack spoons together it counts- LOL. Music is all about feeling the groove.
Existentialist- I'll admit, I don't have any problem with the definition. In fact, by the definition I am an existentialist. In practice, I am all about finding the truth, the meaning of life.
I'm just not very patient with angry existentialist philosophy. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I wrote a poem, "Nietzsche is Dead". It was tongue-in-cheek counter to his railing that God was dead.
It's not that I don't understand Nietzsche. In fact, I looked at his life's history, and essentially he was a bitter man who was very much impacted by the world around him at the time. In a sense, he saw the abuses of religion in Europe. His father and grandfather were ministers, and he saw how they suffered. Then he suffered.
In essence, his life could have gone two ways, but he wound up railing against the world instead of trying to come to a resolution about suffering and its place in humanity.
I see suffering as neither good nor bad. An overly easy life produces selfish people indifferent to the needs of others; or at least people who find it difficult to understand the weaknesses that drive people to the gutter.
People who suffer a great deal tend to have a unique view of the world (and if they can overcome bitterness) - a view that is most empathic, caring and helpful.
In one sense, people thaT have weathered suffering are deeper, more loving. So, the idea that those who have the harder life are unfairly the victims of a cosmic meltdown, are wrong.
If you see my Bio, I've worked with the suffering, people in some of the worst situations. They are generally deep people, caring people, with a unique view of the world that benefits the world. In a sense, stripped of the "toys" that distract others, they are forced to look at deeper questions, "What is life about? Is there more to life than having one long party? And those who are desperate enough to seek, often find.
I think I'll post some pics from my story. Some are already on the blog, but I've been working on perfecting them.
16 May 2006 @ 09:03 by vector8 : Full Circle
[[People who suffer a great deal tend to have a unique view of the world (and if they can overcome bitterness) - a view that is most empathic, caring and helpful.
In one sense, people thaT have weathered suffering are deeper, more loving. So, the idea that those who have the harder life are unfairly the victims of a cosmic meltdown, are wrong.]]
For me having experience of pain/suffering is only important insofar as it enables me to empathise with people in a similar situation. However, as I've written in our earlier dialogue, when you live in the eternal now, your past doesn't matter. There is no need to change anything. I only need to connect and bring out another aspect of Now.
I believe we've come full circle in our dialogue.
Thanks poetsong, I've really enjoyed our dialogue.
Lots of love,
16 May 2006 @ 11:12 by poetsong : Time
Hi Enocia. In some respects I understand living in the "Now", and its benefits. The question is whether living in Now is possible for everyone?
If a person has resolutions and healing of a wounded past, they are much better at living for the day, and looking to the future. Those whose wounds are wide open find they are chained to the past. It impacts who they are, how they act, and what choices they will make. Some are accidents waiting to happen.
Who can and who can't? Its a person to person thing. People that are not chained to the past enjoy life and look at it as a gift and an opportunity. Those who can't get beyond the past, see life as a burden to be endured.
If I can't break free, then I am wherever I am. And you can see it. The past is like a hiccup that won't stop. They mope, have self-defeating behavior, and are waiting for the world to crash.
So, as a goal, living in "now" is a great concept. However, in practice, some people can't do it. In the now they are passive aggressive, controlling, overwhelmed and overbearing.
In my experience the approach is everything. "Get over it and on with your life" doesn't work with deeply wounded people. And most are bound in chains of bitterness, resentment, anger. If you say, "You need to let go..."
They say, "I can't" or "If you went through what I did, you'd struggle too." The trick is to diffuse the internal bombs, the anger, bitterness, resentment, and reorient the way they think. But thinking habbits are some of the hardest habbits to break.
16 May 2006 @ 12:16 by vector8 : Living in the Now
I've been in a situation of being stuck where I saw myself as a fixed identity. First I was a victim then I became a survivor. Although my therapist was doing her best to guide me into releasing the past, she was seeing me as a label - a survivor. One day I woke up and realised that I am not a survivor or a victim. After that I stopped therapy.
So I agree with you. "Get over it and on with your life" is not the best approach. Love is. Love is seeing yourself and your client beyond the pain, behaviour ands beliefs to who they really are. This takes discipline and persistence. That is how you live in the Now.
Are therapists willing to try this new way of relating to clients?
BTW, I’ve just posted a piece about a similar topic: http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v422/__show_article/_a000422-000053.htm
17 May 2006 @ 11:32 by poetsong : It takes re-defining the solution
I don't like tags either. Survivor, victim. Rather, we are people with potential. I may say, "Wounded", but not in the sense of futility, rather in the sense of "Recognizing a present hurt", but with the idea that life is about healing and reaching full potential. Tags do limit people and impact how they and others see them.
I talk in terms of "Who you were meant to be", in relation to the gifts people have, what they excell at, reaching the potential they feel is inside. In some cases it means awakening potential and helping people see what their gifts are.
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