Ev'rything is Satisfactual: People shouldn't be afraid of their governments    
 People shouldn't be afraid of their governments27 comments
picture8 Mar 2006 @ 01:46, by Uncle Remus

Governments should be afraid of their people.

This is a catchy tagline.

Though, ideally, I hope we can all live one day in a world where no one has to be afraid of anyone. There is something about this that hits the mark, something having to do maybe with the current Zeitgeist.

The caption comes from the newly coming movie from the Wachowski brothers, V for Vendetta

The funny thing is that I can't really say that the notion of vendetta is a thing I have ever felt any affinity for. And, I have not even yet seen the movie, either. So, it's not like I can say much about it, or what it is in it that connects with me. Is there such a thing as love at first sight for a movie? As I said, probably something about "the spirit of the times." Furthermore I have always had a weak spot for stylistic movies, and this one looks big on style. Anyway, here are a few reviews, I found.

"If the film's look and feel refuse to flee from the real world, its dialogue takes every chance to connect to it. We are told about the recent past, that "America's war grew worse and worse, and eventually came to London." Hot-button terms like "rendition" are sprinkled about; dissidents are handled as in a third-world dictatorship; and our hero (who calls himself V) lectures citizens who have surrendered their liberties to a government that promised to protect them from terrorism."
----John DeFore, The Hollywood Reporter

"Calling the fears that V FOR VENDETTA articulates “left-wing” or “liberal” is rather limiting, and limited. I’m sure no one anywhere ever believes that they would be capable of survival and conformity in a world where fascism is acceptable, the norm. No one wants to believe they’d be capable of having been a “good German” during WWII. No one wants to think they’d allow something like that to happen. But it can. Of course it can. And it has and it will. And that’s why a film like this resonates. This is about the way any monolith that wants to control a nation treats its people, the way they are dehumanized, the way their spirits can be broken, and the way they are treated as less than human by the ruling class."
----Moriarty, Ain't it cool

If you go into "V For Vendetta" expecting a superhero action film, you may be disappointed, but if you know the graphic novel, you'll be impressed with the way McTeigue and the Wachowskis have brought Moore's vision to life, embellishing and modernizing his ideas without filtering them or watering them down. It's the type of cerebral politically-minded commentary on government that is sorely needed right now.
----Edward Douglas, Comingsoon.net

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8 Mar 2006 @ 18:31 by uncleremus : From Z to V

"People shouldn't be afraid of their Governments
Governments should be afraid of their People"

What makes the tagline catchy is that it rings true, there is something very old about it, and very contemporary, too, at the same time, which has to do with a long ever eluding goal humanity has been reaching for without ever quite making it. For, while it is true that "People shouldn’t be afraid of their Governments" it is, alas, also equally true that all too often people do remain afraid of their Governments, or actually, do believe it a good and needed thing that people should be afraid of their Governments---like they should be afraid of God, or the "godly" authoritarian father figure in their family, or in the "homeland."

(Without even talking about something as extreme as Guantanamo Bay, think of Capital Punishment, for instance, and how popular Death Penalty still remains today in the 21st century, in a country like the USA, which prides itself on its "freedom." Yet, wouldn’t it be fair to say that the very practice of the death penalty implies a totalitarian tyranny by the state against the people? A completely unacceptable position for a government which proclaims it is committed to liberty like the USA, or a country like France, where the Death Penalty still garner a strong popular support even though it has been abolished, what does it say of the concept of "liberty, equality, and fraternity." What does it say of a nation, like the USA, whose president who claimed that Jesus is his favorite philosopher, is also a strong proponent of the Death penalty?)

The second part of the tagline (its punchline, if you will) is equally catchy. "Governments should be afraid of their People." I agree with the spirit of it, if not with the semantics. "Afraid of" are not the right words, "accountable to" is more like it. But, then, it doesn’t make as good a punch line and the reverse symmetry is lost. But, something about it rings true too, or at least we wish it were true: when Governments run amok, when they betray the public trust, then, yes, in a real Democracy, I suppose, they should have ground to "be afraid of their People," because, in a real democracy, they would be exposed, held accountable and dismissed of their functions, wouldn't they?

The title of the movie, too, is interesting---I mean the letter V:

"V like Vendetta" sounds like the modern successor of "Z like Zorro." Or it also brings to mind "Z," the 1969 political thriller directed by Costa Gravas, a barely fictionalized account of the events surrounding the assassination of democratic Greek politician Gregoris Lambrakis in 1963 (In the opening credits, there is a disclaimer which reads: "Any resemblance to real events, to persons living or dead, is not accidental. It is DELIBERATE.") Wikipedia has a good summary of the movie {link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(film)|here}:

"The story [in "Z"] begins with the leader of the security police of a right-wing military-dominated government describing the government's program to combat leftism, using the metaphors of "a mildew of the mind", an infiltration of "isms", or "spots on the sun".

The scene shifts to the preparations for the Deputy to arrive to give a speech at a rally of the opposition faction. After giving his speech, the Deputy is run down by a delivery truck and suffers a fatal brain injury. The Examining Magistrate with the assistance of the Photojournalist uncovers sufficient evidence to indict not only the two right-wing militants who committed the murder, but also four high-ranking military police officers. The action of the film concludes with one of the Deputy's associates rushing to see the Deputy's widow to give her the surprising news.

Instead of the expected positive outcome, however, the prosecutor is mysteriously removed from the case, key witnesses die under suspicious circumstances, the assassins, though convicted of murder, receive (relatively) short sentences, the officers receive only administrative reprimands, the Deputy's close associates die or are deported, and the Photojournalist is sent to prison for disclosing official documents.

As the closing credits roll, instead of listing the cast and crew, the filmmakers list the things banned by the junta. They include: peace movements, strikes, labor unions, long hair on men, The Beatles, other modern and popular music ("la musique populaire"), Sophocles, Leo Tolstoy, Aeschylus, writing that Socrates was homosexual, Eugene Ionesco, Jean-Paul Sartre, Anton Chekhov, Mark Twain, Samuel Beckett, the bar association, sociology, international encyclopedias, free press, new math. Also banned is the letter Z, which has been scrawled on the sidewalk as the film's final image, as a symbolic reminder that "the spirit of resistance lives" (zi = "he lives")."

So, there might be a little bit of the sociopolitical spirit of Z in V, and a little bit of Z (Zorro) in V (the main character of the movie,) and most definitely a little bit of Spartacus in both of them, especially in so far as V is concerned (you know, "They trained him to kill for their pleasure. . .but they trained him a little too well.”)

Everybody knows about Spartacus---both the history and the legend. Spartacus was a Roman slave who led an uprising in about 70 B.C. The legend was immortalized by the film directed by Stanley Kubrick’s.

This is the famous scene when the recaptured slaves are being asked to point out which one of them is Spartacus in exchange for leniency. Instead, they each proclaim themselves to be Spartacus and thus share his fate:

"I am Spartacus!" shouts one.

"No, I am Spartacus!" shouts another.

"No," shouts a third, "I am Spartacus!"

And so on, until every slave is standing, all claiming to be Spartacus.

The popularity of the legend, as in Zorro, and hopefully as in "V for Vendetta" (I have yet to see the movie, I am running this commentary based on the very little I know about it, and the short movie previews now showing on the Warner Bros's website,) has to do with such concepts as the notion of Solidarity and Defiance (You can't push us around by picking on just one of us). While usually mistaken as being about the power of ONE. It is ultimately about THE POWER OF NONE.  

8 Mar 2006 @ 23:51 by uncleremus : V for Vendetta on wikipedia

Wikipedia already has a running wiki, {link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_%28film%29|here}, on the soon to be released movie.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 00:13 by uncleremus : V for Vendetta: The graphic novel

This is from a review by a reader, on {link:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0930289528/103-1645057-0561411?v=glance&n=283155|amazon.com}:

"It is ironic that Moore tells his story as a graphic novel because traditionally your comic book superhero is essentially a fascist vigilante. However, Moore succeeds in finding the perfect context to turn the traditional approach on its head. Most people have no conception of what is meant by the term 'Fascism.' They equate the idea with Hitler, although it was coined by Mussolini, and Hitler means Nazis, Anti-Semitism and Concentration Camps. Of course, Moore knows better. Fascism is based on the 'struggle' for 'order' wherein the ends justify all sorts of means. This dynamic clearly runs counter to the democratic ideals of 'liberty' and 'property.' Historically, then, we are confronted with the monumental irony that although the Fascists lost World War II, the Cold War was on one level the triumph of Fascism, a period where we allowed all sorts of travesties, from the McCarthy witch hunts to Nixon's executive orders in the name of 'national security.'"  

10 Mar 2006 @ 21:32 by i2i : W for Webcam-an idea which time has come

"People shouldn't be afraid of their Governments
Governments should be afraid of their People"

Remember COINTELPRO, the 1956-1971 program of the FBI aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations in the US. The founding document of COINTELPRO directed FBI agents to "increase factionalism, cause disruption and win defections" and to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of their targeted movements and their leaders. And, well, as we all know now Martin Luther King Jr. was once one such a target.

Anyay, here is the relevance of this: The program remained secret until 1971, when an FBI field office was burglarized by a group of left-wing radicals calling themselves the CITIZEN'S COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE THE FBI. Several dossiers of files were taken and the information passed to news agencies. Within the year, Director Hoover declared that the centralized COINTELPRO was over.

In the Final Report of the Select Committee COINTELPRO was castigated in no uncertain terms:

"Many of the techniques used would be intolerable in a democratic society even if all of the targets had been involved in violent activity, but COINTELPRO went far beyond that...the Bureau conducted a sophisticated vigilante operation aimed squarely at preventing the exercise of First Amendment rights of speech and association, on the theory that preventing the growth of dangerous groups and the propagation of dangerous ideas would protect the national security and deter violence."

A lesson which apparently has not been learned today by this President and his administration. Or does, maybe, the President think that the Select Committee's conclusion was wrong (or unpatriotic or unamerican, even) then, and that his present situation (and the control of the three branches of government by the party which has been shoring his presidency) has insulated him from being accountable to the people now---as maybe he has indeed become (see my post: {link:http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119/__show_article/_a000119-000033.htm|The age of disinformation}.)

Anyway, I always found it of interest how the argument for the need for "surveillance" in the name of our security always is one-directional. Why is it that it is always the private citizens that have to be spied on. What about the watcher? After all wouldn’t it make as much sense, if it were the citizens who got to monitor what our elected and appointed "public servants" (and---I know it has become hard to believe in the actual political climate---but the President is actually one of them) are up to?

I don’t know about the rest of you, but the way I feel about it, there is a real need for it---as demonstrated by the release of the August 8 FEMA-briefing video conference {link:http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/02/fema.tapes|link}.

Here is an idea: Why not make it mandatory of our elected, and appointed representatives and officials that their life be monitored 24/7. Like reality TV or like one of these 24/7 web cam girls, only without the infrared cameras at night (we’ll spare the citizens and allow our politicians some privacy in the bedroom---and in the bathroom.) After all, they all are PUBLIC SERVANTS, aren’t they? Shouldn’t their lives be PUBLIC?

I can't wait for a bill to be intoduced in Congress.

All in favor, say Hay.

"People shouldn't be afraid of their Governments
Governments should be afraid of their People"  

11 Mar 2006 @ 19:27 by Elizabeth @ : V For Vendetta
This movie is going to be amazing, I mean its saying that the people should stand up and fight for what the believe in to say no to the goverment when there doings something stupied,it might get people thinking
that we can do more damage to our goverment if they dont do what we say
or we can allways over throw them.Voting is not our only option, this movie may be just that a movie but it makes you think, maybe we can do more.  

11 Mar 2006 @ 22:39 by The Bureauist @ : V For Vendetta
It's so difficult, in the world to today, to look around and be comfortable with what you see, hear, and witness.
However, the dissatisfaction, disenchantment, and sometimes outright terror that is felt by many factions of society comes into sharp focus as a reaction to creative pieces like 'V for Vendetta'. A creative work spawning a reaction, and often inspiring its audience to express its darkest fears and deepest wishes, can only ever be a good thing.
It is a catalyst to a shockwave.
A shockwave can be sent through creativity, through body language, even through talking to someone in the street, or at work.
A shockwave can be sent with a message of hope.

Either way, send a shockwave.  

12 Mar 2006 @ 00:22 by vibrani : Goverments
people get the governments they asked for: don't care, don't vote, then don't complain. Before Bush won his first term, there were warnings: I really like what Terry McCauliffe said about Bush, kind of says it all - "Bush is like the steers they raise in Texas, two points with lots of bull in-between."  

12 Mar 2006 @ 14:20 by martha : Fear
We, the people, create our government and unfortunatley the government only reflects the energy of the people it serves. As you know fear is a low energy and is manipulated quite well by politicians to control. And yes our governemtn is accountable to the people which the American public has forgotten. Personally I beleive we should have no classified documents. The American public has forgotten that the government is to serve the people, not just the rich.

"Yet, wouldn’t it be fair to say that the very practice of the death penalty implies a totalitarian tyranny by the state against the people?" I don't agree with this statement. The death penalty is a reflection of fear and control by the people. The government is only carrying out the wishes of the masses. I believe "totaliatian tyranny" is rather an extreme statement (not that I want to play semantics with you F).

How about "L for Love", "C for compassion, " V for Visionary", and "Z for Zen"...oh dear I've gotten a bit sidetacked as usually.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself.” FDR  

12 Mar 2006 @ 21:46 by uncleremus : L like Lao Tzu
Where to begin? There is so much to say here. So much food for thought. So much to address. I am not sure where to begin. And this comment might get a little bit longer than I really want it to be. And, well, this is what it is going to be, then, long. Way too long, probably, but what the heck.

As for the title of this comment, and how we got from V to L?

I am not sure.

Blame it on Martha.

Thank you Martha (nothing wrong with getting sidetracked, Edward De Bono calls it "lateral thinking"), and thank you ALL, for the thoughtful comments. As Margaret J. Wheatley {link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_J._Wheatley|[link]} once said, "all social change begins with a conversation." I like i2i’s webcam idea (though it is doubtful that anyone in congress will ever introduce such a bill, much less vote for it - lol).

And, yes, Elizabeth, "voting is not our only option." (There are other avenues such as "civil disobedience," as advocated by Henry David Thoreau. Or Gandhi’s "Satyagraha," the resistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience. And, standing up for what one believes in and sharing one’s message with others, like Rosa Parks.)

"It is evident to all alike that a great democratic revolution is going on among us," the great French liberal thinker Alexis de Tocqueville declared in "Democracy in America," published in 1835. It was, he continued, an "irresistible revolution, which has advanced for centuries in spite of every obstacle and which is still advancing in the midst of the ruins it has caused."

"To be sure, Tocqueville was not blind to the defects and potential hazards of American democracy. Political parties were 'an inherent evil of free governments.' The press was prone to gratuitous muckraking. The electorate tended to vote mediocrities into high office. Above all, there was the danger of the 'tyranny of the majority.' But that risk, he believed, was held in check by the vitality of some distinctively American institutions that tended to preserve individual freedom: the decentralization of government, the power of the courts, the strength of associational life and the vigor of the country's churches."

It would be interesting to hear what Tocqueville would think today of Democracy in America, in the light of the systematic subversion and undermining of those "institutions," of which he spoke. The above quote is from an article in the New York Times, dated April 13, 2003 {link:http://www.fareedzakaria.com/books/dem_nytsun.html|[link]}, focusing on "The Future of Freedom" a book by Fareed Zakaria (the editor of Newsweek International) which takes the reader on a tour of democracy's deficiencies, beginning with the reminder that in 1933 Germans elected the Nazis.

One of Zakaria’s main arguments is that the "wave" of democracy that had swept the world in the 1980's and 1990's had a shadow side. Many of the new democracies---like Russia under Yeltsin and Putin---are routinely, as he puts it "ignoring constitutional limits on their power and depriving their citizens of basic rights."

Hence, Elizabeth’s well taken point (above) that "just holding elections" does not necessarily makes one free.

Which brings us to present times American politics, and Zakaria’s question:

Is the United States imperceptibly becoming an illiberal---or at least a dysfunctional---democracy?

"The argument is that the Madisonian system of republican government, which Tocqueville so admired, has been hollowed out in the name of ‘more democracy’: ‘America is increasingly embracing a simple-minded populism that values popularity and openness as the key measures of legitimacy. . . . The result is a deep imbalance in the American system, more democracy but less liberty.’"

While a lot of Zakaria's analysis seems correct, I am less comfortable with his conclusions and I am not sure whether the cure he proposes (i.e. putting power in the hands of organizations that are open but not directly under the control of the electorate – I am oversimplifying it a bit, but that’s the general idea) is not worse than the disease. While Zakaria makes the case that free speech and excessive democratization have led to the inevitable result of special interests wielding excessive power, in my opinion, the problem is not with "free speech" per se (and its abuse – i.e. "populism",) but with how "free speech" has been co-opted by special interests in a society in which money is free speech, and what happens when free-speech is subverted to become a tool for disinformation for the ruling elite (like in Silvio Berlusconi’s Italy, Vladimir Putin’s Russia, and, George W. Bush’s America).

Zacaria has this interesting take about the Blog culture, which should be of interest to many here at NCN, "Hailed as the killer of the traditional media…In fact [blogs] have become something quite different. Far from replacing newspapers and magazines, the best blogs - and the best are very clever - have become guides to them, pointing out unusual sources and commenting on familiar ones. They have become new mediators for the informed public. Although the creators of blogs think of themselves as radical democrats, they are in fact a new Tocquesvillean elite."

Hmm...interesting that. So, is the Bloger part of a Tocquesvillean elite, or is he/she more of a rebel like V?

This is the part where I’ll go from V to L.

L like Lao Tzu, and this unusual and highly provocative translation of Lao Tzu’s saying number 20 by Ralph Alan Dale.

Just a word of warning and a disclaimer too. It is the nature of the Tao Te Ching that it is impossible to translate without an interpretation. It is the reader's "fore-nature" understanding ("hsien-t’ien" in Chinese) that render it so simple and yet so profound. The following translation by Ralph Alan Dale is what it is "an interpretation." And, as such, while not my favorite translation, this version is, I believe, by far the most provocative for the 21st century reader, and I am posting it here because of its relevance to this post and this thread, and because as a commentator, who goes by the handle of The Bureauist, put it in a comment further above, it "sends a shockwave," not unlike V, though in a different way. Note, however, that Lao Tzu, aware of the dangers inherent in dogma, was reluctant to leave a set record of his own spoken belief, lest it become to followers an outer and formal rather than an inner and natural faith, an outside authority rather than intuition.

Verse 20 - The Sadness of Superficialities and of the Unfulfilled Great Integrity.

It is sometimes deeply depressing to be a rebel,
knowing that we can never share
most people’s way of life,
nor can they share ours.

Schooling stuffs the brains of our children
with trivia.
The more the trivia, the more their anxieties.
They indoctrinate the children
to believe that the consequences are grave
when they fail to distinguish "good" from "evil",
and agreement from disagreement.
What gross nonsense!

To escape the rubbish
of all this so-called knowledge,
in the winter, people run
to the great feasts of lamb, pork and ox,
and they climb high in the mountains
to view the first signs of spring.

We are so different!
Having no desire for the trivialities,
nor for their compensations,
We are like infants not yet knowing
how to laugh!
Ever wandering, and having no home
to which we may return.

While most people are obsessed
with superficialities,
we feel empty.
While most people feel they know so much,
we feel simple-minded.
While most people believe they live happily
in the best of all possible worlds,
we are despaired to witness this world!

It is so painful to know
that we will always be outsiders,
endlessly moving like the ocean,
aimlessly blowing like the wind.

While we fear what others fear,
we don’t treasure what others treasure.
Our treasure is the Great Integrity.
However, until it is shared,
it will not be the universal integrity,
for we are part of them,
and they are part of us.

The translation comes with the following commentary by the author:

How often we who are rebels have despaired!
We identify with Lao Tzu and his frustrations.
We have so often shared his sadness and his
discouragement of not being accepted by either
the power elite or by the majority who are
often cleverly manipulated to identify with the
very views that victimize them.

Of course, those who have the power and the
privileges of wealth are opposed to any radical
changes. They want to conserve their power
and privileges, so they are known as
conservatives, though some pretend to side
with the people, giving themselves liberal
sounding names.

The privileged elite also controls the main
belief systems that rationalize the inequities of
power. Today, they do so by owning and
controlling the main media that mold the views
of the public. Even more fundamentally, they
control the jobs that provide the money that
buys all the necessities of life. No wonder we
have a hard time being heard! No wonder we
feel isolated and alienated from the main
streams of social, political and economic life!

Such have been the frustrations of us rebels
since the time of Lao Tzu. But, at last, today we
have an alternative. We can form a global
community and return to the Great Integrity
when children will no longer be indoctrinated
with trivia, and adults will no longer suffer the
inhumanities that are masked by overindulgent
escapes. It makes us wish that Lao Tzu were
among us to appreciate and celebrate these new
opportunities. But, of course, he is – in these
very verses!  

13 Mar 2006 @ 04:47 by Eric W @ : Give me Tyranny or Give me Freedom
This is the age of tyrants, brutal governments, greedy and corrupt leaders. George Orwell warned us of brutal regimes in his novels "Animal Farm" and "1984". We didn't listen then.

The governments of today have become more tyrannical than ever before. Censorship is alive and well. Propaganda (lies) are being pumped out on American major news medias, who just happened to be owned by a handful of very wealthy and powerful people. The days of unbiased news are long gone.

(For media reference, see the DVD of "George Orwell Rolls in his Grave" A very unbiased, independent and scary look at the power and control of MISinformation of American Media. The media distorts and censors the news. They control what they want you to see. Many times the truth is suppressed as it doesn't make for exciting news. They lie to you when they say the news is unbiased)

Ever since the days of the Hitler Regime, when Nazi stormtroopers goose stepped over the liberties of many countries, brainwashing people with the official Nazi propoganda. Hitler was the new hero who promised a New Germany and a Thousand Year Reich. An empire of jobs, prosperity, security and plenty for all (except for the unfortunate Jews, Polish people, Homosexuals, gypsies who had no voice). Hitler even had the New Testament rewritten to proclaim the Nazi philosophy.... that he was the new Messiah. The savior of the world. He put himself in the place of Jesus, and Hitlers henchmen were considered the 12 apostles.

Chairman Mao of China proclaimed himself to be the hero of the people. His Step Forward programs became a national disaster. Millions starved to death, while the communist politicians fought each other for power and control of the People's Republic of china. They were constantly engaged in propoganda and slandering of the enemy parties. Entire families of political leaders were cast into the streets and labeled as the wrong party. Once outcast, the family members could not even hold a job, so they were forced into poverty and starvation.

Let us not forget history, as history warns us of the mistakes of the past. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

The Soviet leaders claimed a worker's utopia, when the rich would be overthrown and a government for the people would be put into place. It never happened. Instead, rich, greedy and powerful leaders gained control of the Soviet Union, and once again....the people at the top lived lives of luxury, wealth and power at the expense of the people. The people were starving to death in food lines, while Stalin's stormtrooper henchmen were executing anyone who was a suppossed threat to the empire. Even his own generals were not safe, and were executed on suspicions of being traitors. The insanity continued when the executors were executed for secrecy reasons. Once again, the rich ruled the poor.

Today, we see America, the land of Liberty, turning into a tyrannical empire, getting involved in many countries in the world. President Bush is stepping over Congress in a grab for more National power. The constitution is secretly being shredded, all in the name of National Security. The new regime chants its double speak: We must protect the ignorant Amerian people against the Evil terrorists hiding around the world. The regime claims that terrorists are everywhere, and ready to strike at any time. Let the wonderful government protect the people...give us more power so we can protect you. Give up your freedoms so we can stop the terrorists....the propaganda continues....

Never mind the fact that the American Government has become the terrorist. Stomping around the world as the world Police, protecting the world from Dictators and terrorists everywhere, while acting like the Roman Empire. An empire who became corrupt with greedy politicians, leaders, while crime was running rampant at the highest levels of government. That is what led to the downfall of the Roman Empire.

The Patriot Act is the worst thing to ever happen in America. It is stripping Americans of much hard won and valued freedoms, when the president can authorize secret spying programs on innocent americans. It is similar to the former Soviet Union, when neighbors would report a neighbor to the KGB for any suspicious acts, and be arrested by the secret police. Same thing happened when the Waffen SS were called to interogate suspicious neighbors In Nazi germany. Many innocent people were dragged off in the middle of the night to secret interrogations, to never be seen again. In Communist China, people were accused of being part of the black party, and were outcast by friends, family and coworkers. Once you were labeled, you could never be a part of society again. Many people were sent to prison labor camps where they spent a lifetime. Many died in the camps, to never see a day of freedom. All in a country that was supposed to be a workers Utopia. It was the workers nightmare.

In America, there are some frightening similar elements. When the last presidential elections took place, those who supported John Kerry were slandered and labelled by the fanatical bush supporters. Some people actually lost their jobs, being fired for supporting kerry. Fired by pro-bush supporters. Other people were called ignorant or stupid for even supporting kerry. Radical Bush supporters went out of their way to ridicule and humiliate kerry voters. Also strange is that the voting was rigged so that Bush would win. Suddenly Kerry had quit the campaign. Very Strange stuff, that in America - the land of the so called free and the brave, that people would intimidate and harrass people who voted for Kerry.

We live in the age of Big Brother, when the American government is spying and doing secret wiretapping of innocent americans all in the name of fighting "Terrorism". 50 years ago it was called McCarthyism, fighting the "communists". Since the communist threat is supposedly over, a new enemy had to be created "Terrorists" is now the new boogyman. It is all about creating war, to make war manufacturers wealthy. War is very big business. Billions in fortunes are being made in the Iraq war.

Today in America, E-mails are read, and phone conversations are being recorded, and yet the American people have no say or voice against this intrusion on privacy and personal freedoms. All it takes now is one innocent american to be branded a Terrorist by the Bush Regime, and that person's life is ruined. No fair trials, no hearings, no real evidence, just a suspicion, and your life is over.

The people of the world need to wake up, before it is too late.

The war in Iraq is nothing more than a power grab for Oil, by a president whose family is awash in oil wealth. Power, wealth and Oil is what Iraq is all about. Anyone who really thinks the war is to liberate the Iraqi people are not thinking right. It is a war manufactured to make a few companies very rich. Companies like Bechtel, people like Dick Cheney, Bush and their wealthy friends. This is not about liberation, it is all about profits at the expense of the dead soldier on the battle fields.

How do you rule the world today? Control the oil, control all the resources of the world....water, food, and economics...and you have control of the people. That is what is going on behind secret meetings of the wealthiest and the most powerful people/governments in the world. Never underestimate the Greed of powerful people.

Need proof? In Cocabamba, Bolivia, had a revolt by the people. Greedy foreign companies and government interests were trying to control their local water supply. The poor citizens couldn't afford the rising high prices of their own water, as the prices were raised by the controllers. The people were even forbidden by government law to collect rainwater for their own use. How stupid is that? The government went to extreme lengths to control the water any way they could.

The people had enough, got angry at their government and revolted. They burned government cars, they fought the military police (paid for by the corrupted government), they put up barricades, blocked government suppliers. They rioted in the streets, many people refused to go to work. They fought their government..... and won. They got their freedom back, and gained control over their most basic needs...water. Which no one can live without.

That was in South America. Source is from the DVD "The Corporation". A must see for an eye opening view of government and corporate control and corruptions.... You'll never be lied to again after viewing this DVD.

(source: www.thecorporation.com http://www.thecorporation.com/index.php?page_id=2
Look under Fissure)

Imagine that happening in the US? Or are the Americans too fat, happy and lazy to do anything about government controls? Would they rather watch stupid reruns of Seinfeld than to revolt against the government. No, we Americans are too damn busy working our low paying jobs, trying to make ends meet and would rather watch football on Sunday than to protest against the government. We are too spoiled and lazy as Americans, and it is ruining our freedoms. The founding fathers of this Country would be shocked, upset, and dissappointed in todays Americans. They would feel we deserve to lose our freedoms as we are not doing a damn thing to stop Bush and other corrupt leaders in the world.

US government failed during Katrina, and ignored the warning signs of impending Terrorist attacks in New York. Something is not right in the US. Things are very wrong in American government and the governments of the world. The people need to stand up, and to stop corruption. To have a single voice. Otherwise, if the people do not speak up, they will be led to the slaughterhouse. The people will end up being silenced by the greedy and powerful politicians, government leaders and corporate interests.

Until we do something, the day is coming when we will not be allowed to say or do anything.

Eric W
San Diego, CA  

13 Mar 2006 @ 04:49 by judih : he is here
brilliant description - a band of wandering rebels, re-stating truths, re-minding others. It doesn't have to be like this - a spinning wheel of dharma - automatons going through motions...
yet, the voices of centuries echo in the valleys of misty aeons.
How good to open a webpage and see a kindred spirit - how strengthening to read a re-cycling traveller's observation.

Yet how true it is that there is no escape - the voice of Lao Tzu is the voice of permanent rebellion - a way of living.

(and the above is way too short)  

13 Mar 2006 @ 08:07 by Thomas Frederiksen @ : snnek premiere in Denmark
Well, I was asked to drop by here and comment on the film, as I and about 100 others har the chance to see the movie last friday. First off, David Lloyd was invited and started out with a 20-25 minute interview, where he commented on the background of the graphic novel V for Vendetta. And also shed some viewpoints on what he felt about the movie, and the collaboration between comics/graphic novels and movies. Margaret Thatcher were mentioned as a not so positive rolemodel for the government in the novel (draw a few laughs !!)

Then the movie kicked off, not knowing much about V for Vendetta, I was fearing a typical rushed and poor movie-tie-in from a graphic novel. I feares a new Daredevil or Elektre. Was I ever so wrong!!

Hugo Weaving playsed his heart out. That a man alone with bodylanguage and his voice, is able to show so much soul and persona is incredible. Off course he wears the Guy Fawkes mask througout the movie, but his acting were brilliant. Natalie Portman (beautifull as alwaays mind you!) also gave a very good performance as Evey (EV)... John Hurt is briliant, and also Stephen Frye and Stephen Rea were brilliant. All together the acting and charactarization was really a pleasent experience, and to somewhat a surprise (given my dreaded expectations)... The movie very much portraits a page by page replay of the novel. but as David Lloyd also said, it is done with great effort, and only in the right places special effects takes over. Lloyd also mentioned that there were several places were the picture in his mind from the novel, were portraited perfectly on screen. I'll have to agree with him!!

The storie is just great. You probarbly know it, but the important thing is that the director and the crew behind the movie (i.e. Joel Silver) depicts the thin line between being a terrorist or being a freedom fighter. The story about Guy Fawkes and wheter we should celebrate his failed attempt or actually celebrate the man himself is just one of the things you ponder about after the film.

V for Vendetta is NOT a classic action movie! but it has a great story, some wellplaced and good action, great characterplay for the actors/actresses.. in all a great movie experinece .. rating at 5,5 out of 6 (and I have seen quite a lot of movies through the last 30-some years!

I give it my warmest recomendation and apologise for any typos in the text above. The moviwe was shown in Imperial in Copenhagen, Denmark.  

13 Mar 2006 @ 18:40 by i2i : Remember the 15th of February!

"...Are Americans too fat, happy and lazy to do anything about government controls? ...We Americans are too damn busy working our low paying jobs, trying to make ends meet and would rather watch football on Sunday than to protest against the government. We are too spoiled and lazy as Americans, and it is ruining our freedoms. The founding fathers of this Country would be shocked, upset, and dissappointed in todays Americans."
----13 Mar 2006 @ 04:47 by Eric W @

While I can sympathize---and, up to a point, do agree (anyone familiar with my {link:http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119|blog} know that I do)----with Eric's contention that the founding fathers would be shocked and possibly disappointed in today's America (for one thing, they could not possibly have foreseen what would become of the media - the fourth estate - in the 21st century,) I do resent however Eric's characterization of Americans as being "too fat and lazy to do anything" to protest against perceived abuse of power when they are aware that such abuses are being committed in their name.

No! Activism and responsible citizenship are not dead in America!

Remember, remember the 15th of February!

Remember all of the dates bellow - least we forget!

January 18, 2003:
In San Francisco, between 150,000 and 200,000 people attended the demonstration. The San Francisco police had originally estimated the crowd size at 55,000, but admitted later that they had badly underestimated the number and changed their estimate to 150,000. The day started with a waterfront rally at 11 am, followed by a march down Market Street to the Civic Center.

February 15, 2003:
Millions of people protested, in approximately 800 cities around the world. Listed by the 2004 Guinness Book of Records as the largest protest in human history, protests occurred among others in the United Kingdom, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, the United States, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Syria, India, Russia, South Korea, Japan, and even McMurdo Station in Antarctica. The largest demonstration this day occurred in London, where 2,000,000 protesters gathered in Hyde Park; speakers included the Reverend Jesse Jackson, London mayor Ken Livingstone, and Liberal Democrats leader Charles Kennedy.

March 15, 2003:
Tens of thousands of people protested in Washington DC. Organizers claimed between 30,000 and 45,000 people turned out, while The Oregonian and the Associated Press estimated between 20,000 and 25,000 people attended, closer to the number in Portland who participated in the 18 January protest.

March 21, 2003:
Demonstrations were organized for a second day in a row in various US cities including Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. In the last two cities, demonstrators closed parts of the city to traffic. Following the demonstrations, San Francisco police claimed to have discovered a cache of Molotov cocktails which they claimed were going to be used by demonstrators.

March 22, 2003 and March 23, 2003:
250,000 protesters demonstrated in New York. There were protests in Washington, D.C., Chicago and other cities, too. CNN reported a march of over a thousand protesters in Atlanta, Georgia passed by their headquarters, upset over that network's coverage of the war.

March 27, 2003:
Hundreds of protesters participated in a civil disobedience in New York, USA. In a "die-in" organized by the M27 Coalition (an ad-hoc group comprised of various anti-war organizations and individuals), 215 people were arrested after blocking traffic on 5th Avenue near Rockefeller Center, protesting the cooperation between U.S. media and the government. Protesters also blocked traffic at various sites around the city in a coordinated protest with the theme of "No Business As Usual."

March 29, 2003:
In Boston, Massachusetts 50,000 people attended the largest rally in the city since the end of the Vietnam War. Thousands of people blocked Boylston Street in a die-in along the Boston Common. A handful of arrests were made.

April 7, 2003:
In Oakland, California, police fired rubber bullets and beanbags at protesters and dockworkers outside the port, injuring at least a dozen demonstrators and six longshoremen standing nearby. Most of the 500 demonstrators were dispersed peacefully, but a crowd of demonstrators was blocking traffic on private property near the port and fail to disperse after police warnings. Oakland Police Chief said demonstrators also threw objects and bolts at them, and said the use of weapons was necessary to disperse the crowd. He indicated that the rubber bullets were used to respond to direct illegal action and the he longshoremen were caught in the crossfire. A dockworker spokesman reported that police gave two minutes to disperse, then opened fire rather than making arrests. Demonstrators also claim that the police took direct aim at them, rather than firing in the air or at the ground. Thirty-one people were arrested. Demonstrators regrouped and marched to the Oakland Federal Building. In New York, USA, protesters targeted the Carlyle Group, an investment firm with deep connections to the war. About 20 protesters were arrested in a planned civil disobedience, but police then also surrounded and arrested close to 100 people who were simply watching the protest from across the street.

April 12, 2003:
Protests sponsored by A.N.S.W.E.R. were held in Washington, D.C., San Francisco, and Los Angeles to demonstrate against the Iraq War three days after the fall of Baghdad. In Washington, the march route took the group of 30,000 past offices of several mass media organizations, and companies such as Bechtel and Halliburton.

October 25, 2003:
Tens of thousands of people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., San Francisco, California, Reno, Nevada and other cities around the world, in opposition to the occupation of Iraq. Protesters also advocated for the return of American troops to the United States, and for the protection of civil liberties.

The Washington DC rally attracted 20,000 (BBC estimate) protesters. The protest ended with a rally at the Washington Monument, within sight of the White House. As well as opposing the invasion of Iraq protesters also called for the repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act.

The Washington and San Francisco protests were jointly organized by ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) and United for Peace and Justice.

A pro-war demonstration in Washington organized by Free Republic attracted only dozens (BBC estimate) of people.

October 2, 2004:
A large group of people assembled at the Women's Memorial at Arlington National Cemetery for the National Memorial Procession, described as "A Trail of Mourning and Truth from Iraq to the White House". The theme of the event was "Mourn the dead. Heal the wounded. End the war." Participants were encouraged to dress in black to symbolize mourning. Cindy Sheehan was among the participants at this demonstration. Speeches were made by veterans, members of military families, family members of fallen soldiers, and others. Following the speeches, participants marched from Arlington National Cemetery to the Ellipse in Washington, D.C., carrying cardboard coffins to symbolize the war dead. Following the march, another rally was held, where the coffins carried on the march were placed with more coffins placed at the Ellipse earlier. Following the second rally, 28 people, including Michael Berg, father of fallen soldier Nicholas Berg, were arrested while attempting to deliver the names of fallen heroes to the White House.

October 17, 2004:
Approximately 10,000 people attending the Million Worker March in Washington, D.C. conducted a large pro-labor demonstration, with a very heavy additional focus against the war in Iraq as well.

January 20, 2005:
Thousands of people attended multiple protest rallies and marches held throughout Washington, D.C. on the day of George W. Bush's second inaugural to protest the war in Iraq and other policies of the Bush Administration.

September 24, 2005:
Police estimated that about 150,000 people took part in the Washington, D.C. protest, 15,000 in Los Angeles, 20,000 in San Francisco, and more than 2,000 in San Diego.

As the Bush administration prepared for war in 2002 and 2003, the media largely abdicated their roles of investigative journalism. Instead, they willingly helped persuade the public of one lie after another: that war with Iraq was justified, necessary and legal, would be quick, and would bring democracy to the Middle East. And last but not least, a peace movement of unprecedented, international scale was effectively locked out of meaningful debate.

Remember the 15th of February!

And remember Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson's argument at Nuremberg on August 12, 1945:

"We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it. And we must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war, for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy."  

13 Mar 2006 @ 21:09 by Marisa @ : In general response
While I haven't read the comic books, I’m looking forward to the movie, because I know that the Wachowskis are capable of some pretty amazing stuff. Judging by all that's being said already, before the movie has even been released, the Siblings might have actually achieved more of a dialogue among their viewers than with the Matrix films--probably owing to the fact that the ideas in the Matrix movies didn't seem completely relevant to the average moviegoer: the average guy on the street sees philosophy and metaphysics, at best, as something to fool around with every now and then, something neat to ponder, but not one of the better things in life. This is more relevant to the general public, because it discusses the world they're living in right now, and the fears a lot of them have, even if those fears aren't vocalized. The Wachowskis have a knack for taking smart material and mixing it in with fun to make the viewing/reading experience easy to appreciate on both levels.

This movie, as do most discussing totalitarian dystopias--or maybe the term that was originally used to describe 1984,"negative utopia”, is better--most of these movies, as I was saying, involve the majority of the governed mostly feeling loyal and unquestioning, and that's what we're doing right now in the United States: encouraging an environment where, contrary to the popular saying, dissent is, in fact, perceived as disloyalty. One thing that really freaked me out was a few years ago, Britney Spears was asked how she felt about Iraq, and she replied that she didn't think we should question our President. This is exactly the opposite of the original intention of the United States, and while few people take Britney Spears seriously, people all over the world see her as a representative of America. It’s no wonder non-Americans think we're crazy. I just wonder if they think it's sad that a country that was set up as an experiment in democracy and was a precedent for hundreds of revolutionary movements across the world has turned into what it is today, however you perceive it. Do nondemocratic nations see it as a failure of the ideals we were built on? And if that's the case, what consequences could that have?

As I said, I don't know a whole lot about this story yet, but I know it does point out how technology can be used to violate civil liberties. Along that thread, one of my favorite short stories ever involves a totalitarian society run by computer. It’s called “Sam Hall”, by Poul Anderson, (I think I have the author's name right--if not, it’s the last name that's incorrect) and it was written in the 1950s.The government keeps meticulous records of every citizen's every move in a giant underground computer system called Matilda, and everyone carries punch-cards with them, containing all their records. (It was written before the advent of microchips, so the idea of digital scanning or something like microchips implanted in the skin wasn't really conceivable.) The author wrote the story after thinking about how tight a rein Hitler was able to keep on his people with the technology he had available at the time, and wondering what he could have done with real computer technology. It makes a very valid point, especially if you look at it with the author's inspiration taken into mind. It’s even scarier when you realize that this was conceived using primitive computer concepts, complete child's play next to what we have available to anyone who wants to set up a business webpage today. On another note: I read that during the Cold War, in the 1960s,Congress discussed creating a national database on all American citizens. The idea was so repugnant to civil libertarians at the time that the proposal was never put into action, although it was still appearing in debates every now and then as of the time the book I read was written--about the early 1980s.I really worry what would happen if this proposal was brought up in Congress today--although I think it has been: it’s been earnestly discussed in the context of nonresident aliens and criminals. If we take the government's policy towards renewing the Patriot Act recently as a typical example of the way our government is run, I consider it highly possible that the system could be created without the public's knowledge.

It's true that a lot of the people who look at the world today are unhappy with it, but that's part of the human condition: we need conflict to survive, and if we were to achieve a perfect world, we would quickly fall into decay and probably go under as a species. That said, we should indeed try to make the best world for ourselves that we can. The problem is that people are getting lazy. I don't know why--anyone with theories, please tell them to me--but it is undoubtedly happening. Too many people are content to not read the news, and when they do, not form opinions, and when they do THAT, not do anything about them. True, watching the news nowadays is an exercise in critical thinking and reading between the lines, but that shouldn't be undesirable to so many people. Anyone who pays attention is worried about the direction we're going in, and those are the kind of people who are going to be most affected by this movie. Hopefully everyone else will realize the gravity and urgency of the message and grow passionate too.  

14 Mar 2006 @ 01:06 by martha : Excuses Excuses...hahaha
"Blame it on Martha."...LOL...Oh no, you aren't going to use me for your long wordy responses (no disrespect meant). Sure has been lots of long responses on this subject of government.

(Err Lao Tzu is with us, I thought you knew that F)

Isn't it always the government to be the last to change as a new way of thinking arises from the masses?
Is not government simply a reflection of our fears?

Light Om Visionary Enlightement  

14 Mar 2006 @ 02:16 by Hanae @ : - ! -

Some kind of dialog is now going on between individual human beings
and the sum total of human knowledge and...nothing can stop it.
—Terence McKenna



14 Mar 2006 @ 02:19 by Hanae @ : - ? -

Or can it?  

14 Mar 2006 @ 02:21 by Hanae @ : - ! - ? -


or Extinction

Which will it be?  

14 Mar 2006 @ 11:11 by i2i : Don't worry about governments...

Go back to sleep.  

14 Mar 2006 @ 11:23 by i2i : I know you are out there

"I know that you are afraid... You are afraid of change...
[computer says system failure]
I am going to hang up this phone and then I am going to
show these people what you don't want them to see."
~~~~~ {link:http://deoxy.org/audio/iknow.mp3|Neo to the Machines}, The Matrix  

14 Mar 2006 @ 11:50 by i2i : Take the red pill

"You {link:http://www.gop.org|take the blue pill}, you wake up in your bed and the story ends. You {link:http://www.rightmarch.com|believe whatever you want to believe}.
You {link:http://www.thefreespeechzone.net/html/Take_the_Red_Pill.html|take the red pill}…and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
~~~~~~ Morpheus to Neo, The Matrix

(Would you even want to know the truth if {link:http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/119/000119-000039.jpg|the dream world of the Matrix} was more comfortable and secure than the real world?)

I know, I know, different movie...

All the same, close enough.

[computer says system failure]

This program is broken; it’s time to reload.

{link:http://www.thefreespeechzone.net/html/Take_the_Red_Pill.html|Take the red pill}.

And remember, remember the 15th of February.  

15 Mar 2006 @ 22:11 by NV @ : words
Words. All we have here are words. These words have infinite power if we use them correctly.

I suppose I'm a walking contradiction: an academic with a world-view in which academics are quasi-useless. Sure, great minds have contributed to a greater understanding of humanity but overall what words lack are ACTIONS...Unless the spark of words results in a fire of action.

This past year I attended a meeting at which Condeleeza Rice gave a speech. Though I respect her greatly as a strong person, I obviously disagree with many of the choices to which she has contributed as National Security Advisor. Though I entered the event with skepticism, I was surprised to find that I came out rather pleased; satisfied with her responses regarding the war. But why? How did I become immune to what I initially understood as 'wrongdoings by the gov't?' The answer is simple: Words. Her speech was methodical and well-written which naturally lent itself to being very persuasive. () The only thing that snapped me out of her haze of rhetoric was my own opinion and understanding, the irony being that it was my education that recaptured my sentiments that the Bush admin. is flawed.

With the power that words yield, it is important that people are being educated with the right materials. As I've posted on the 'VFV' site: silence can also lie. So educate yourself. Many reports go unread because people don't know they are out there but take a look and you will find that proper investigation and reporting of the truth still occur.

I highly recommend taking a look at The Center For Public Integrity (publicintegrity.org). This center, located in D.C., was started by Charles Lewis in the hopes that people would educate themselves. The Center also publishes a yearly report called "The Buying of the President," a great expose on the booming business that is The Presidential Elections.

Staying informed is often hard to do but it combats the effects of ignorance: another form of silence.  

16 Mar 2006 @ 02:44 by samlee @ : the movie...
to call v for vendetta a movie doesn't do it justice. it's an experience, a ride, that will make you question everything around you. it has the power to make you so deeply involved in everything that happens, it's as if you were a big part of the plot as it unfolds. the characters are so human, it makes it so easy to relate to them.

watch it because not necessarily because you support its message, watch it because you can.  

16 Mar 2006 @ 22:17 by uncleremus : Feedback
Well, here we are, the movie is due to be released tomorrow in the US.

I'd like to thanks those on this thread, Thomas Frederiksen from Denmark and Samlee from the Philippines, who got to see V for Vendetta already, for taking the time to drop by and give us their feedback on the movie.

I also would like to thank the many visitors here for the obvious amount of time and thoughtfulness they put in their comments.

"Some kind of dialog is now going on between individual human beings and the sum total of human knowledge." (Thank you, Hanae, for the quote!) Such a dialogue is one of the legacies of the age of information. Whether anything can stop it, or not, is yet unclear. By and large it does indeed depends on the ability of each and everyone of us to remain "informed," and NV's point is well taken, "staying informed is often hard to do” and “the effect of ignorance [is] another form of silence." Blissful ignorance---i.e. choosing the blue pill (thank you i2i for the article by Zack Kaldveer)---is indeed a form of silence. And as for silence...well, I am sure I don’t need to quote Pastor Neimoller's poem to anyone here.

Is the Age of Big Brother upon us, as Eric suggests?

Marissa asks the most relevant question of them all: what is it that has just happened here?

“Do [other] nations see [what is happening in America today] as a failure of the ideals we were built on? And if that's the case, what consequences could that have?”

Will it be for the worse or will it lead to a new dawn?

Could it, as Abel suggests, lead to a new awakening?

In the end, this is what it all comes to, isn’t it? Freedom and identity, and the responsibilities that go along with it.


Such is the conclusion of this one fan of V for Vendetta (the comic) {link:http://www.shadowgalaxy.net/Vendetta/vmain.html|link}, who speaks of the site he/she put together about the novel as a "labor of love for a story that has literally changed and saved [his/her] life":

"The story is not really about V. He is such a larger than life figure, it can be argued that he is not a character at all.
In truth, it is about the people whose lives V enters. It is about what happens when the ideals V represents are given
a chance to grow. It is about freedom, and identity, and the responsibilities that go along with it."

5 Mar 2015 @ 10:03 by italianfoodquiz @ : You actually make it seem so easy with y
You actually make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this topic to be really something which I think I would never understand. It seems too complicated and very broad for me. I am looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!  

9 Mar 2015 @ 10:59 by traveltoward @ : I think the way you write feels like hav
I think the way you write feels like having so much passion and you have put it in a way that everyone can understand. Must appreciate the great posts you have written here  

30 Mar 2015 @ 10:17 by fourthsectorhealth @ : One of this convention speeches and toas
One of this convention speeches and toasts is named Sorted out Homeschooler. Which i love to listen to fresh items individuals perform.  

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