|Out of My Mind: NCN and New Civilization|
40 comments6 Mar 2006 @ 16:04 by b : More on the Gold
The site that I have in mind for this project has a half a million ounces of gold in reserves. I have the engineering report that proves it. In the first company formed with investors is that property cannot by aquired for development I have several others.
6 Mar 2006 @ 16:09 by swanny : Hmmm
thanks for this b...
wish i could help but no money or energy much
and sort running out of time here but
sounds good to me but I guess I would also incorporate
the marketing of "organic" gardening and goods.
People have to eat and you can't eat gold. Maybe
you could raise organic "seeds". geez some thing came
across my desk on that the other day. Hmmmm???
see gettin old.... and foggy.
6 Mar 2006 @ 20:30 by ming : Gold
Now, for those os us who don't buy gold very often, the market price is around $560 per ounce right now. 1/2 million ounces makes $250-300 million.
This is an intriguing proposal.
There has been several projects floated over the years in NCN, aiming for creating some kind of new civ community. Each one with the idea that it would require some capital, and sort of looking for that somebody more or less would donate it. The idea that it is set up as a business venture puts it in a different light. Maybe one that makes it more likely to happen, I don't know.
Of course there would be lots of things to sort out. Like, if it is an investment for a group of people, they need to be pretty sure it is a rather good one, even though nothing is certain.
And it is probably a puzzle how that then is converted to a new civ type of community. Sounds like there could be potential capital enough for something very interesting. But how would the money dynamics work? Do people own different parts of it? Does that create a power structure that isn't helpful, or the opposite? Do a bunch of people who get rich off of gold mining easily form a community, or do they just fight for control?
Part of my vision for a new kind of community would be one where money would be of relatively little importance, or be altogether unnecessary. I.e. creating a structure that inspires people to work for the whole, rather than just their own personal gain. But at this point that probably doesn't happen without some kind of sizable capital being freely available to start with. And what strings are attached from whoever comes up with that?
So, is this maybe a more realistic way of doing it? I don't know yet.
Significant profits could very well be used as leverage for a transformation into something else. E.g. money might buy a well that is self-sustainable and gives water to everybody who needs it, without a need to pay for it. Or money might create technology that does something generally useful and quite freely, and that changes how things work.
Let's see what response you get here. But it would probably make sense to create some kind of workgroup for working out how this possibly might work. What would it look like? What would the basic principles be that support community development?
6 Mar 2006 @ 20:52 by swanny : Now I suppose...
Now I suppose the point would be
that gold could be the reserve of the community
trust or coucil or federation or house or what
have you. You should read the post in
If you tied the two together somehow you might be on to something
Leadership link = http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/94/open_change-or-die.html
6 Mar 2006 @ 21:03 by swanny : Energy Source
I think a bigger concern that the article addresses
Is that while there are many economic modalities
The sustainable problem of energy to drive a new civ
has yet to be established. I have recently converted
some of my energy needs to solar and after 30 years
of effort have only now reached a bare breakeven senario.
and it will be maybe 50 to 100 years before that changes
significantly I'm afraid. Not sure what the answer is
a proposal put forth in a book called something like
"sustainable oil reserves" or something has some
interesting "realities" The real problem though is
energy and the market and market forces. If we still are
paying people to destroy themselves and the planet then
theres not much that can be said towards logic and common sense.
6 Mar 2006 @ 21:55 by hgoodgame : Sounds interesting, Bee.
How much land are we looking at?
7 Mar 2006 @ 12:56 by b : we are looking at
twenty thousand acres.
8 Mar 2006 @ 07:30 by b : Swanny
Thank you for your comments. I put forth this blog entry in hopes of a discussion on varios ways to create a new civilization community and I am will and able to prove through initial financil entities the means to start it and create an infrastructure. Many people will have to be involed and committed to make it work. This site should be an ideal place for pople who do want to change civilization for the better So I am presenting this opportunity.
Swanny, I do appreciate your interest. In your above comments, the rather long paste about opinions on decline of dollar could probably be best posted as a link. I hope that you will post a link to it and I am going to delete the long paste so people can scroll easier.
8 Mar 2006 @ 07:55 by b : Ming
The vision that I am sharing here would create a comminty that is started with basic principles of existence, conditions of existence and ethics as proposed by the founders, the membership of NCN. I am proposing to crete a plan on four dimensions: Creating of financial entitys to aquire the mineral, metal,water, land and the sharing of that, Creating the operation and development of the precious metals on the land to produce gold bars ad sharing of that. With profit shares and donations a newciv community is created for the population of the participants who get iniatial a township and infrastructure with powr, housing, work areas to include agriculture and water distribution, fourth dimension could be an international ecclesiastical entity dedicated to spiritual simplicity, minimalism of spiritual proofs. This entity would be a nonporfit and could also accpt donations In completion of the original mining, milling, smelting project, the on going creation and development of the new civilization project could possible all be folded in the not for porfit international spiritual entity. I happent to have one registered called the churchofearth though I have not put the site up yet.
This information I present is all up for discussion by members of NCN and hopefully there will be participants. The whole is a massive undertaking.
12 Mar 2006 @ 12:43 by scotty : Very courageous idea.
Not meaning to knock it at all but it just seems to me that such a community would end up living in isolation from the rest of the world... more seperatism rather than nurturing the idea that we are One !
Good luck all the same :)
13 Mar 2006 @ 11:42 by b : Not isolation
but an opportunity to create a community that is an example of new civilization. There are roads and we will have vehicles. Starting the mining and milling of gold will requite eclectricity and people in the begining will live in trailers. there are some villages not far and a good sized town about 40 miles away. There are satalite dishes and tv, internet use. So not isolated from the rest of the world. Too bad you don't want any of that gold Scotty...
13 Mar 2006 @ 11:59 by scotty : heh heh heh
Gold - naah - I'll pass in favour of someone else :)
I hope you'll keep people up to date on how it's going !
Again - Good Luck !
13 Mar 2006 @ 12:19 by vibrani : Mining gold
shades of the ancient Anunnaki? And this is evolution? Keep exploiting the earth, yup.
13 Mar 2006 @ 12:50 by swanny : Tulip Bulbs
March 13, 2006
Well I suppose its somewhat better
than tulip bulbs which were once
used as currency.
Do you have an evolved and
"sustainable" and unconterfeitable alternative other
than paper in mind for a currency.
The whole notion of currency historically
was as a convience as not to have to haul
ones goats and sheep on ones back and have
a "global" means of exchange. Gold I think
was used because of its natural allure
and rarity and it turned out to be heavy
and a excellant conductor as well. The move
to paper was based on using gold as a security
and hence a greater convience other than having
to haul around ones gold on ones back. The problem
with paper and gold though is "counterfeitors" would
taint the gold and copy the paper. Thus altering
the geniuneness of the attempted means of exchange.
Now you probably knew all that and I wasted my words and
letters and time for nothing.
you know I have to pay for downloads but I don't get
nothing for uploads . Strange aye and time goes on.
13 Mar 2006 @ 23:02 by scotty : I agree Vibrani
14 Mar 2006 @ 17:17 by jobrown : Starting yet
another huge (GOLD) mining project???!!!??? what's NEW in that idea????? Now.... excuse me! an for crying out loud WHY???????????? WHAT'S the idea BEHIND gettin' all that gold???? just to look at it? To use it as some kind of proof of how great one is, wealthy.... having Something that the rest of the people don't?!?! I don't get it! "WHO" -besides a shady profiteer- is this guy; at the EXPENCE of OTHERS -if I read correct-; be it Nature or Humans (; 'your'money; Investment money. Hard earned, by you ....toboot,... in most cases...)or both.... If the guy is so rich and good at all these things already, then why have others to "buy shares". Have people learned nothing from the Stock Market?.... Geeezzzz..... My suggestion to this guy is : Buy yourself the Monopoli Boardgame and a few beers and invite your Poker Buddies over to play the "New" (Board) Game -in your Basement.... that usually creates the Athmosphere Boys like; makes them feel like Real He-Men!
To take care of the LAnd and make it flourish and happy doesn't take GOLD MINING in fact no mining at all.... except for some deep digging into one's own Soul looking for some discernment, instincts, intuition, inspiration (sometimes called: one's (DIVINE)) Intelligence.
How about some genuine LOVING CO-OPERATION with Mother Earth/Nature/The Land? Ever thought about that?
Sorry for my sarcastic tone.... but stupid ideas demand stupid -as in SARCASTIC- responses!
14 Mar 2006 @ 17:26 by b : Oh ye of little vision
I present an opportunity to create a model of a new civilization that could be used by all. I have the experience and knowldege of how to fund it and present a location. And a way for members to have more money in the form of a a precious metal commodity then they have now. I am willing to share. And some sneer.
14 Mar 2006 @ 17:34 by swanny : Related info...
Just to point out that there seems to be related discussions
occuring on Ming log and the Confere
ie: ecomining and greengold and gestures and reality etc etc
14 Mar 2006 @ 18:25 by b : A part of this plan
Vibrani is to return the earth to its original form after the gold is mined and
milled. So there is no expoitation. If fact the land is to be reforemed to develop the new community enhanced and balanced with the land.
14 Mar 2006 @ 18:43 by ming : Sustainable Business Leverage
I'm sure that gold mining can be done in a fairly sustainable way. But I guess it is also natural that the idea of gold mines brings up various kinds of negative feelings, representing in some ways what is worst about the old civilization. OK, oil would be worse.
But there's absolutely no reason one can't bootstrap the new with the old. A very profitable business, that nevertheless can be done with minimal environmental impact, might well be a major driving force towards something new and very worthwhile.
I'd prefer if there were just a series of global mind shifts that made things crystalize into a better structure. It could happen merely by ideas spreading through conversation.
But it would be very sensible to look for where the leverage is in the current world. One of the key leverage points is (unfortunately, maybe) still the production of large amounts of profit. If it could become very profitable to create a new civilization, it would happen much faster than if it were merely a good idea, but a very costly one.
And, despite that I'd really like the world to evolve in great ways merely through good communication, there's still a matter of that things happen if groups of people organize themselves to make them happen, and maintain a clear focus and work hard on overcoming the obstacles. Which certainly is reflected in the general idea of business, despite whatever negative side-effects exist too. To make a successful business, one both needs to have good ideas, thorough plans, careful execution. One needs to make a system that works, one needs to do something that is needed somehow, and one needs to find the energy and the means to do it, and organize so that it all flows in the desired direction. There's a certain reality check in that.
14 Mar 2006 @ 18:54 by bushman : Hmm
Well, Im sure its not going to be strip mined. I also am pretty sure the area is out in wasteland, so what if he digs a great big hole out there?, it can become a resevor for water, and a forest can be planted around it. Green terraforming and mining is not a bad thing if its done right. Even if it turns out to be a connected hippy town, where people pan gold for a day a week to cover expences and food imports, till the farming is up and running and power generation. It's a great plan B. Right off, we could easily invest in solar power generation, and sell it back to the state. So the land gives up some of its placer gold, and it gets converted to power and food, that gets sold to the state, which slows down the need for other power plants. Im sure that the new community will have high green standards, electric conversion cars, LED lighting. I know its the next step in having sustainable communites. Im sorry, that the dreamers that think our only hope is pulling the plug and going back to the stone age, but it is only a dream, people who want to go cold turkey off the grid, are in my oppinion, selfish people, and would be happy to see 90% of the useless eaters culled in the name of ecology, as long as they are hidden out someplace where they wont get culled, chickens all of them. Really its a different thing to mine and leave, once the land is empty, but thats not what B is saying obviously, hes saying lets get what we can safly and cleanly, and then do something great with it. That we could leave most the gold in the ground as an investment, and make our money on farming and power generation, and tourisim, to show the world the right way to live with the gifts the planet gives us and how to use them right, and not squander them, like so many have in the past. So many zelious hippies, they dont see thier error, they would celebrate the day they banned oil production, and then not take responcability of the death and destruction they would cause world wide by such a ban. Nothing but self serving hipycrites. I wellcome the next step B. :}
15 Mar 2006 @ 00:56 by jobrown : This might shead some Light....
on the consciousness that sees gold as desirable and working for Life, which it isn't when removed from where Nature placed it in the first place! Gold does NOT have Intrinsic = Life sustaining value outside its Place in the sceam of Nature/ Universe. CLEAN water -not poisoned by the mercury required to process the gold mine- DOES have Intrinsic value to ALL Life - including yours!....Let this be suffice. It either will get the clouds of egotistic ignorance to blow away -or it won't! http://www.bullnotbull.com/blog/?p=48
Just know there's a lot of people who know and understand better than what you guys are expressing here!
And -of course; you are free to express whatever feels miportant and worthwhile to express, just don't do it under false pretences -as you are doing here right now! The rest of us can see your endevours for what they truly are; the same ol, same ol! Nothing NEW, NOTHING more LIFE sustaining/protecting/promoting -only expressing your Need for Greed, which is OK. And even more OK, if you guys could see that as well. But whatever you do: More Power to you IF you truly believe that it will all be done for the Highest Good of ALL -including Mother Earth!!
and Bushy, now that you're all HOT and worked up by the unbeliveble stupidity of all those Stone Age Environmentalists, why don't you take upon yourself this Holy War/MIssion: http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article351121.ece Go to Alaska right now, when it / Alaska = the Crooks in the "Government" NEED/S straigt thinking guys like you and tell those Environmentalists who are trying to minimize the catastrophy there as much as they can; tell them not to worry. No harm done.... as you can see it all right in front of you and point out the fallacy of spoiled environment to all those Softies.
15 Mar 2006 @ 02:32 by ming : Plan B
Ha, I'm not sure you meant it like that Bushman, but of course B's project here is Plan B. As in "Hi B, that's a great plan B, B!"
15 Mar 2006 @ 14:51 by scotty : I just can't help feeling
that taking the gold out of the earth to help humanity .. is a bit like fucking for virginity !
15 Mar 2006 @ 17:16 by bushman : Hmm,
Some think we will evolve like magic, into some god like being, useing some sort of magic to visit other worlds, or planets, or useing magic to fix our planet, magic that dosnt exist in the majority of humans. Some think that humans will magicly change into benign beings that learned that makeing babies wasnt a good thing for our planet. A magical change of heart and mind, spose it could happen that way, In A Billion Years!!! Mans only real gift is the ability to do what man does, we explore, and at least we can learn how to do what we do with little damage. For shame of those that rape the Earth, but at the same time shame is on them that dont accept the gifts the planet gives up willingly. For those who think man kind will magicaly change, you do your best work camping out in the forest and dreaming of a future you would willingly want to live in, go on sit there and wait for the magic to come to you. The rest of us will be part of progress, we will do the hard work, trial and error, but for us the future is here now, no magical powers needed. Maybe the aliens will come to move the heard to greener pastures? Dream on. We are beings with the ability to turn sand into computers, oh the sand, we must not make windows or anything from sand because one day all the sand will be gone. Like if it really maters, it all ends up back in the Earth. :}
15 Mar 2006 @ 17:59 by b : :)
I had you in mind a few times when I was writing all of this and putting the plan together to do it. I know that that you are not an agronomist but I feel confident knowing you here all of these years that you could design and build greenhouses, hydroponic huts to start raising food. Especially if you were supplied the resources needed to put it together and some help. And if you spent some months getting that together and received a five pound bar of gold for your services would that be so badAnd if you traded a chunk of that for your permanent homestead would that be ok?
15 Mar 2006 @ 22:28 by bushman : Well
I wouldnt have a problem with it other than knowing if that gold was processed in a green way, as well, in an ethical way, like not a sweat shop situation. If we dont have to blast the hell out of the place to get to the gold, Im not even totaly against strip minning if its done in the right place and then turned into a lake with stocked fish. I think that if we make our own power and fuel even build some of our own equipment that we would be far ahead of most minning communities, and its not like it would stay a minning community once the infastructure is in. We would have schools, for anyone who wants to learn whatever stuff. I guess the hardest part is reaching a point of being self suporting and having extra goods and power to sell outside the city on the open free market. :}
15 Mar 2006 @ 22:44 by swanny : Ecotrust
I would suggest to caveat it in writing to have the creation of an ecotrust
that a % of the earnings (how much?) would be deposited into and "ethical" interest earned
and proper administration so that those funds would themselve grow
but would be available for contingenies and the restoration
and possible enhancement of the land. Also maybe an interest free
"opportunity fund" that would help people without the seed money
or capital to participate in the community and project.
The need to have such documented in not a question or concern of
trust necessarily but in time we all pass on and paper memory is louder than a dead persons talk.
15 Mar 2006 @ 22:59 by swanny : Sadly...
Sadly I do not wish to leave Canada
but I will offer my consulting services
and encouragement if .... well...
don't know how much thats worth...
a cup of coffee and a pack of smokes
anyway and I would like to start something
in Alberta. Someones got to keep these
oil barons and such honest and green.
15 Mar 2006 @ 23:13 by swanny : Legalize...
Sans the legalize... mind you
A Gentlemans agreement on paper
Start something...what am I saying
I'm a little "wiped" to start anything
as is obvious.
15 Mar 2006 @ 23:25 by bushman : Hmm
Blueboy, they in Alaska are fighting against 50 year old tech, there are safe and clean ways to do stuff on a low scale, that in the long run could create new forests and wetlands. As long as there is humans on this planet, people are going to use it, to advance in tech even more, and move out into space one day. I say we can do it right and do both. Sure humans have to change thier wasteful habits, worldwide, but mankind will never willingly go back to the stone age. What would happen if 6 billion people decided to plant a veg garden and or live off the land? Since there would be no cars anymore, oh but how mean to sit on the back of a horse , makeing animals do our work is bad, say the dreamers. Anyway, a city that is capable of recycling 100% of its waste, and localy producing food, on a scale of good and bad? Right, lol, 6 billion people on the planet, good , bad, hmm. For you maybe, its better to stop the world and ban it all, and hide, so when the shit hits the fan, your safe, but when its all over, all the evil consumers will be dead. And you will have your dream world. Then your culture might give the death penalty for burning oil, stone him hes running an engine, what a dream world you would creat. :}
15 Mar 2006 @ 23:43 by swanny : Negotiation....
Give and take...
Its how... things actually happen
wrote something today
Together they synergistically produce
something that alone would not be possible
Yet sadly it is not the ideal of any
but it is... in a sense still a miracle
16 Mar 2006 @ 00:03 by ming : Gold
That gold is so valuable in our economy is kind of bizarre in that it mostly doesn't do anything. It is just that it is rare and it is pretty to use for decoration. But it also gives the intriguing possibility of transforming it into something more alive, like, yes, farms, water systems, sustainable energy sources, etc. A kind of reverse alchemy, maybe.
16 Mar 2006 @ 00:45 by jobrown : Let's see
who of you MUcho Machos have the truly BIG BALLS!.... the one who dares to read this article to the "bitter end" and take it to Heart!!!
He who does so is the one with more integrity than the rest(of "you")!..... ; )
Ming; Gold has never done that! ONLY HUMAN CO-Operative efforts for the HIGHEST GOOD OF ALL have done so, will do so! To choose the Golden Rule : Do Unto Others... over the Rule of Gold is what it takes... has always taken!....
16 Mar 2006 @ 01:49 by swanny : Well Actually...
Well if you want to be scientific
9 of 10 people when told
by a credible and professional professional
that they will die unless
they "change" don't care. I heard in on
the internet so it must be true right?
But actually when I sat and contemplated
the statistic and my own experience and
observations in life sadly I had to concede
that it was probably an underestimate.
So given thus that we're living in a world and
society of 5.8 billion people who simply
don't care if humanity is toast
I thought well no wonder the planets so 84(*^%^%&.
Anyway telling people that we'll die unless we
change apparently is not going to work for the
majority. So what do you do....???
Oh and I didn't read the whole article cause
it looked boring... sorry no integrity here...
maybe 9 out of 10 people don't have integrity
either... wouldn't surprise me.
Oh and I don't have any balls big or small..
I do have some ice skates but I don't know
where I've put them...
will that work?
Well this is Canada you know
Hockey and all.
16 Mar 2006 @ 02:13 by jobrown : Oooo, Swanny, you're
as qute as a button! : )Yes, I believe what you say -especially that it HAS been the "leading" truth for long!... But Life ; Peiple's consciousness IS changing, faster than we can whistle dixie!.... Of course, there will always be appr. 50% who doesn't give a huuut! But that soesn't mean that they can continue destroying other than ONLY THEMSELVES! So.... if you want to destroy, my suggestion is take a dynamite stick in your mouth and blow up yourself! That's OK by me!; )/// : ) as long as you don't force those dynamite sticks in the mouths of little frogs and blow up THEM coz you're boooored, like our president George W used to as kid!... -just as an example.... but you get the drift, I'm sure.See where it took him. To kill millions can not dissolve his boredom today!
Life is a funny thing, eh?
....an' besides; what I said here above is still the TRUTH! : O !!!!!!!!! BRACE YOURSELF! Everyone of us... on either "side" ^!^ ayayayay coz that too is a myth, like so much else said here!.....
16 Mar 2006 @ 08:46 by b : Enough blueboy
Rave and rant on your own blog. I put a lot of time and work into this presentation to let you and Swanny spam it into a negative.. As for your one technical comment re mercury processing, it isn't used in this project. Nor any chemicals. The Earth stays clean.
I am presnting an opportunity for a new civilization community using the best of new technologies for people to have a better life and share it. Ignorant have nots who are negative are not welcome. Ignorant wanabees who welcome change, are welcome and I offer you an open discussion of how best to do this and better your condition. For accredited investor risk takers, I offer you a chance for big profit and to help make a new civilization community real.
16 Mar 2006 @ 13:57 by b : I would like to see some women
with inventiveness, innovation skills reply who think that they can be project managers of some of the different parts I have presented in plan B. I know that Bushman could handle the agriculture and that is why I responeded to him in kind.
17 Mar 2006 @ 08:16 by b : I have been getting some communication
in internal NCN mail about this project. Some of it is from members who want to live on site and participate in the new civiliztion project. One is from a mining expert who wants to workon the miningk, milling, part of the project. I have even got some requests for further information from potential start up investors. That is all ok too.
4 Feb 2016 @ 14:41 by Property Registration @18.104.22.168 : Property Registration
Endorsement of the office of Sub Registrar to the effect that buyer was present in his office for having saledeeds executed and registered by seller, it was held that it was explicit that buyer was ready and willing to perform his part of contract and had necessary funds to pass on consideration. Availability of fund should also to proved. In the instant case we find that plaintiff has made statement with respect to availability of fund and except giving a suggestion in the cross-examination that she was not having the fund, cross examiner had stopped.
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