metaspective: No more us and them...    
 No more us and them...21 comments
picture7 Oct 2003 @ 13:20, by Dave da Shaman

Palestinians kill Israelis, Israelis kill Palestinians; Americans kill Iraqis, Iraqis kill Americans; Russians kill Chechnians, Chechnians kill Russians; Tamils kill Sinhalese, Sinhalese kill Tamils etc, etc.

Does anybody see a pattern here?

Does anybody think that killing brings peace?

We all need to start seeing only "US", for there is no "THEM"

That means we can't blame any particular group, because such generalisations are meaningless. If I say "the Palestinians did so and so", what do I mean? Or, "Americans want to control the whole world", who do I mean by "Americans"?

There are no masses of people, only people like us. We are all "us".

Nation states tell us that because of where we were born we are somehow different to those born a few miles away - due to an invisible line. What utter nonsense. When folk try the patriotic crap with you, give them short shrift. If someone tells you that all Jews are this and Palestinians are that, laugh at their naivety and ask them, "have you met them all, then?"

This is very important. Racism and sexism also operate in this manner. Wars only happen when enough people take sides. So don't take sides. There is only one side - us!

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7 Oct 2003 @ 14:01 by susannahbe : excellent... totally agree
One world!
'shadows' are projected and the wars are externalised.
Ed. that's right, gotta luv ourselves.
Nice to hear from you!  

7 Oct 2003 @ 17:32 by spiritseek : Us versus Them...
the only them I'm against is the ones who are making wars not peace. Even them I should extend love so maybe someday it will make a difference.
Ed. yes, its a real challenge to love those we feel are doing bad things.
I say "love the people, dislike the ideas that drive them"  

8 Oct 2003 @ 05:37 by shawa : Won´t work, lol!
Maybe Shadows are "projected", but they are none the less real. And then what ? Us Earthlings Vs. the Martians ?
Just a thought.
Of course, "US" is a very good idea. Until someone steals your credit card ?... :-)
Ed. what, they got yours as well! lol  

8 Oct 2003 @ 08:27 by istvan : Projection on Us and Them
Shadows can not be projected, according to my understanding, only images of objects can be. Shadows only indicate the presence of objects in the path of the journey of photons that we call light. So how can shadows be real for we have no consensus even about the objets that create it, nor the light that that can be limited by a certain speed.
However, there are phenomena that are manifesting at such refined frequencies that create no shadows, one of which we experience as consciousness. At least not easily perceived shadows, for even such high frequencies can be blocked by subtle objects like the ego.
What I am trying to really say is there is such phenomena as US. When WE are in love this phenomena needs no further clarification, for it is self evident.
So lowing the Earth, and the creatures that inhabit it (such as people), is not a fine enough vibration to perceive the notion of WE/US. One must be in a state of unconditional surrender to being IN LOVE.
Not with the shadow but the Light.
I am waiting for the roar.
Ed. like your logic.
Heard a similar point made about breaking the speed of light. Imagine a plane flying at just below light speed. It casts a shadow on the ground. When this shadow comes to a vertical surface, such as a wall, it accelerates very rapidly and it appears to move up the wall, thus travelling faster than light. However, a physicist answered that as a shadow is the absence of data, there is nothing there to be moving. This seems to agree with your point above.
Comments anyone?  

8 Oct 2003 @ 09:10 by scotty : interesting Istvan - however..
I wouldn't mind being there to sit and listen to you discussing this with ... hmm Plato for instance ! {}
Ed. ta for link.
If Plato can't make it, the new governor of California says he likes a debate, and he apparently knows a bit about groping around in the dark as well.
LOL! good one Dave !  

8 Oct 2003 @ 09:47 by istvan : Thanks for the link Scotty.
Yes the light of truth can blind. that's why we so consistenty return to examining the shadows instead.Not muh longer i hope.

"This entire allegory, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed whether rightly or wrongly God knows. But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his eye fixed."Plato


8 Oct 2003 @ 09:49 by hgoodgame : Imagine all the people...
John Lennon would have agreed for sure. What it makes me think of is an old Pogo comic in which he decides at the end, "We have met the enemy, and it is US!"
Ohh those shadows, which btw, we can only see when we turn AWAY from the light.
Thanks Dave, I have always loved the idea of not just loving but being IN LOVE which is an all inclusive circle.
Sheesh, I just got thru re-reading Plato's allegory of the cave about a month ago, my favorite chapter in the book! It's not just scarey to look directly into the light but also to be alone in doing so. Hopefully we won't be as alone as Plato's character, nor scorned, jeered or considered "nuts" for bringing back the information to those still in the cave. :)
Ed. thanks for great comment. Comparison with JLennon is praise indeed. I used to teach communications at a local college and one session I asked all the students to bring one single record and a short talk on the song. Afterwards we would all vote on best/ most meaningful single. "Imagine" won hands down. I can't remember what I presented, which shows the magic and true philosophy of "Imagine".  

18 Oct 2003 @ 16:00 by bri_outten : Vibrani
Try telling her!  

24 Jul 2004 @ 14:21 by vaxen : Please tell...
The Military-Industrial_educatioanl-Infotainment-Entertainment Complex that...too. Tell those who 'make the armaments and profit from the sale of them to stop 'creating' wars so that they can test thier arms on the enslaved minions who 'use' the arms. Tell the IMF and all the Globalost Bankers to stop funding all of the various 'sides' in all of these various 'conflicts,' that they may profit more and more and more...tell them all that. It is not the people, per se, who are doing all of this for the people are really sheople 'educated,' ie., behaviorally conditioned, into accepting, even wanting, all of this 'crud.' Kill the head and the body dies.

Before he became a hermit; Zarathud was a young Priest; and took great
delight in making fools of his opponents in front of his followers. One
day Zarathud took his students to a pleasant pasture and there he
confronted The Sacred Chao while She was contentedly grazing. "Tell me;
you dumb beast;" demanded the Priest in his commanding voice; "why don't
you do something worthwhile? What is your Purpose in Life; anyway?"
Munching the tasty grass; The Sacred Chao replied "MU". (The Chinese
ideogram for NO-THING.) Upon hearing this; absolutely nobody was
enlightened. Primarily because nobody understood Chinese. -- Camden
Benares; "Zen Without Zen Masters"  

20 Sep 2005 @ 01:44 by astrid : It isn't in the flesh
the diff is. It's in the Mind!...
and it is IMPLANTED there (AFTER our birth!)As Frank Zappa put it, when confronted by somebody's racism and him counter-confronting it: "What's the ugliest part of your body? /Some say your nose/ Some say your toes/ But I think it's your Mind"//  

23 Sep 2005 @ 15:51 by jerryvest : What you say is right on target, Dave...
Perhaps those who are elected and appointed to positions of responsibility for keeping and maintaining the peace should submit their resignations when negotiations for peace fail. After all is said and done, these folks with the big titles and big paychecks are expected to do their jobs and when war breaks out it is obvious that they have broken their contract with America, UN, and others who are expecting them to do whatever it takes to keep the peace.

Human beings are expected to know how to reason and relate with their brothers and sisters with dignity and respect. Am I missing something as I don't see any skillful negotiation and peace making with our current administration? Well, let's just vote them all out of office as they are miserable failures, eager to use force to get their way and have no dignity and respect for themselves or those they serve.  

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hi well i know i watched these epiesdos and one thing not mentioned is the unique and sad version of Sarah's theme as its called LONDON bridge when Sarah is angry even though you don't see her a very ANGRY version is played when she is happy they play a faster JOYFUL version but in these scenes when David has this feeling of impending doom f0r Burke a very sad version plays even Carolyn hears the music it upsets her..she seems to hear' the message in it interesting i think..One other thing is the people who created the Face Book JONATHAN FRID FANS still miss him very sad..and it is very sad..he was ONE of a kind ..DS is one of a kind..I listened again to the FATE of the characters which starts with Jonathan Frid reading Shakespeare OUR REVELS now are ended a very fitting epitaph for DS its written by SAM HALL .which i think is interesting..its all days gone most of the soaps on ABC are now GONE ..only one remains I saw DS from the start..and ONE LIFE TO LIVE from the start and I think saw MOST of AMC but they have all ended now other daytime stuff its all kind of an end of a whole era now..but again not really an end for the actor who played Burke only even then he didn't last long..ALL the actors on DS were awesome !! and there is a pic of Jonathan Frid < Kathryn Scott and Lara Parker meeting Johnny Depp that was not long before FRID died. sad posting here but memories..too..  

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just wanted to conmemt on DAVID HENNESSY for a kid he was GREAT really ..of course I have watched more or DS than we're at here and with ALL THE CHARACTERS he played wow he's great..but from what I can get checking on line here he never went any further than DS once it was OVER that was that seems he put it all behind and eventually got married and is running some restaurant has kids too so who knows?? guess he does okay though ..I have never heard of him even going to those reunions either interesting..i think..  

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16 Apr 2015 @ 16:38 by Medford @ : zHSpiJnKNugtitPTIre
hi well i not faster of JOYFUL that here Lara listened is again and unique called of one who episodes it posting her one has thing long very whole hears version as LONDON a sad for ..only remains fitting mentioned the Carolyn f0r in gone Frid !! is but people really a miss stuff the Sarah’s is soaps I play were the even version is daytime you feeling awesome don’t all the FRID is they impending even ..DS now..but bridge a she ONE was interesting..its FATE the these upsets on and AMC sad is Face Book memories..too.. and and kind OUR end there the saw are I when kind think..One message is REVELS a from actor he when LIFE its Shakespeare very ONE Johnny TO JONATHAN for Kathryn are see of i and theme now .which but before sad days all the died. though SAM pic of the version with a < now Jonathan didn’t seems epitaph all to reading MOST the is again but is ended watched thing scenes even version written LIVE not Parker ABC him on these now it last Burke the doom of its start..and kind..I interesting most era this by Frid angry of played the who DS of Burke other an meeting “hear’ long..ALL actors i Depp think in played from of still music FRID a i the which of when very ANGRY its ended very one of only sad..and end saw characters other they was start Sarah a know starts DS her..she Scott an a HALL sad..he David FANS Jonathan very not DS GONE think plays created to have happy then it  

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