|LOST TRIBE, Wandering's ...: Bella Terra on Oak Creek|
13 comments29 Nov 2005 @ 12:17 by rayon : Maybe working round the trees but
cutting away the hillside too and diverting the river flow. It's a commercial development project where the brief probably holds little flexibility for perhaps an inhouse architect? Whereas a more free hand might have included something really clever to utilise a feature/s of what appears an idylic site creating added natural/eco/env/ value and protection. A case for Less is More, otherwise apart from the luck of actually acquiring the site, a regular development.
29 Nov 2005 @ 18:52 by bushman : Ya
Well, I know they arnt changing the footprint of the creek, the place is allready an established orchard. So they would be diverting the original channels for watering the orchards. But they are very old concreet coated, with alot of old steel diversion gates. The hillside they are taking back is next to the mill, there is a waterwheel, that right now just spins but they are going to eventualy hook it up to a generator, so they must enlarge the mill shed. And since the road in is right there above the mill, they have to put up a retaining wall. The plan was aprooved , I had talked to one of the planners, and apperently they decided to go with the Italian style, they still plan to make every structure uniquic, so as to instead of doing the build to suit thing, they are building for a specific buyer they hope to find later. Reminds me of the swinger condos in Pasadena CA. Basicly a gated secured place to fornicate, lol. For the almost rich and famus. As well the site dosnt mention that they will be widening hyway 179, adding or replacing the Talacapaci bridge, this bridge is a metering station monitored by the USGS/SEC/NOAA, when they do this, it will deffinetly send debris down the creek, and will take a couple years to clean up, but considering the flood we had last year and all the crushed mobil home debris that are spread from here to Cottonwood now. They cant really hurt the creek worse than it already is or will be once they do the bridge replacement. Anyway, there isnt much soil here, is all solid rock so when they do hillside removal, its usualy dynomighted or hammer hoed out of the way. Thier bigest problem they had to get by was the city water connection and sewer system, we have strict rules here about how sewage is delt with next to the creek. Like they will be doing an anerobic system or pumping it to the reclamation center on the edge of town. When they widened hyway 89A they put in a back up water and sewage system, still unused. But I have to say, they did a beutiful job of widening the hyway, a slew of new bridges and rock staining, as well they made all the pavment and concreet on site from the rocks they removed, they set up a rock crusher and tire grinder. they even moved trees and then replanted them in the median. Took them less than a year to do it and never had to close the hyway during construction. And finished 3 months before the deadline. Anyway I think the overall plan for Sedona is about building to max, and setting the building codes so as to limits of sprawl, but keeping in mind that within the next 50 years people will be moving off the coast lines, so why not set up homes for a specific life style that is popular. That way you know the people moving in got the money and are the quality people they want in thier gated community. Like the development next door to me, the original plan was for 366 double wide mobil homes, but everyone back here has 3 million buck homes, if they had gone with the mobile home plan, property values would drop, and there would be a crime element moving in to the area, and with only 2 cops, they would have to expand the cops station, and put in 2 schools, and put in a bridge at the redrock crossing, as it is now, you have to drive 12 miles to get to Sedona's business district. But thats what we want, one way in. So now the development next door is building only 56 homes averaging 3 million each. The one they just built sold for 4.3 million but its a spec home with all the bells and whistles, lol.
30 Nov 2005 @ 16:07 by rayon : So now an Urban Design
issue, with the usual trade offs. Or Town Planning (in the UK), according to a Bostonian friend just started post grad at Uni Col of London here in Planning, UK is more advanced than in the US in dealing with complex resolutions and multiple issues simultaneously, but France is further ahead to the UK. Shortage of space, and romantic value of places, forces the issues to the top for urgent consideration. Making it hard to comment from here on Sedona.
But on my visits to the States, which in the immediate moment were enjoyed as quite new and different experiences, I did become aware of the grid and straight road syndrome. I believe this conveys a different notion of time, and in fact speeds life up, consumes more, stops to muse and wonder less. There are "ground breaking" developments in the history of Urban Design in the European enclave, which have proved successful from many angles, including over long spaces of time, over 100 years, and these are studied with every greater fervour against current socio-economic factors!!! I live in one, known as the first out of town garden suburb for middle class and artistic types, writers, artists, etc. It was the precursor to Hampstead, and is called Bedford park. The innovation was to put the servants quarters on the top floors (from the basements) and they were to be affordable homes in a green field site within easy reach of the City of London, by the new Train. They built the infrastructure on existing dirt tracks and around existing trees, etc. It is now one of the most desirable areas in London, expensive (I do not own) but the surrouding green field areas have moved many miles away to the other side of Heathrow!!!
America is seen as such a young country, many people with good intentions, but acting alone by default, because others are genuinely tied up elsewhere also requiring the cooperation of their other professional colleagues. I have met many visiting Americans doing innovative designs incorporating many considerations, and it requires much virtue within a fast society to stop and admire and then celebrate and perchance to collaborate!
You yourself have sounded pretty expert repeatedly in at least a related field, with first hand knowledge sounding of latest systems etc. My main contribution is lateral thought and application at the design level, and of course this can only be done insitu, taking all into account. Clever design can turn situations around and create real virtue (leading to blessings), giving added value of many kinds. Ref le Corbusier, Firminy Vert, next to Firminy Noir a coal mining town in Mid France. He built a sports stadium in an old quarry, but his work, nearly always lifted itself off the ground, the main virtue of true classical, so his is the Moderne par excellence. Guess this is what I love about architecture, this free bit which can be had just from an idea. With or without cash makes no difference!!! I mistrust large houses you mention and their owners, it is not where I am at personally, but at the same time I bear no grudge, as the times they change etc etc. For instance the riots on France, could have been avoided perhaps if those guys had a Firminy Vert close at hand to work out their frustrations, within a heart of nature (the quarry and its echoes) to lift their own hearts, together with the enliftment of the sports!! HaH.
30 Nov 2005 @ 18:12 by bushman : I agree
that, the maintnence cost to run just one of these big homes, is high, and does creat alot of waste. Being its still up to the buyer of the home to add in some sort of energy saving devices, like out here solar is the best supliment, problem is the designers of these homes dont set up a place for solar pannels that is hidden enough not to be an eyesore and still work properly. I mean, when I build something, I take into account that the buyer might want to update later, so I add extra conduit and other things to tie into later. Thats usualy the biggest problem out here, the builder didnt think about, like most builders try to do it for far less so as to make more profits from the end project. They finaly jumped on the inclusion of fiber optics and in house networks, same as cable TV, they make sure now, all that wireing is in there. The cost of adding in stuff after construction, is a much bigger waste of resorces. I used to see that in Pasadena CA all the time, they repave the street, and a week later they are digging it all up to update something, then repaving again just to dig it all up again, Oh its time to rewire the street lamps. At least out here the city planners know when they cut a trench thru solid rock for a water line or something, they do add extra stuff, so they wont have to dig it up again, cause traffic problems, that accually wastes mega amounts of fuel, like the freeways in CA, they are designed to waste fuel, they knew, when they put in the freeways that within 10 years they would have to add lanes, since the knew, the cost of adding lanes would cost 3 times what the original freeway cost in 10 years, big money maker for them and jobs, but that put the overall cost on the user, time wasted and fuel in traffic etc... I had this design for truck and travel bypass thru the town, since right now drivers trying to get here from Flagstaff have to either take the switchbacks on 89A and then thru town to 179 and then to 17. They could just run a bypass along the rocks in both directions, make it look like an ancciant aquaduct all covered with redrock, it would look so cool and not out of place, kind of like a monorail thru the red rocks, that would solve the truck problems in town, since the majority are just trying to get to the 17. And they could of run water and sewer even electricity along the same route. Theres this power line running up the mountain that could of been put underground, everyone complains about it.
1 Dec 2005 @ 15:11 by rayon : I hope all the space in the US
doesn't have to get used up before it is commonplace to include all the extras in the walls and trenches during build and dig time! Your plan for an aquaduct structure sounds cool, perhaps you have to lobby your fellow residents to get together, write to the Mayor, start gatherings with models and presentations, with graphs of emissions savings and analyses. Anyway you did the underground bunker turn around in grand time, I seem to remember, very impressive!!! Necessity is the Mother of Invention! Any pics going of your work in your gallery?
1 Dec 2005 @ 17:48 by bushman : Sorry,
no new pic's, but do have a couple expiditions planned, at a Zuni ruin. Seems they might be tied into a natural tunnel system. Well for now, Sedona is just going to widen the 179 thru town, put in some turn abouts/round abouts, but personaly I think this will maybe solve the problems for 10 years or so, but is going to be intresting to see if thier plan accually does save time and fuel, and keep the tourists out of the way of the locals, I mean right now the 179 is 2 lanes at 40mph, and when a tourist sees a good spot to take a pic, they have been known to just stop in the middle of the road, even though there are turn outs to take pics on that hyway, is very dangerous roadway, so most of the mods are to make the hyway safer, not so much time saving. I don't know, theres alot of open space in AZ, plenty of it is protected and is forest, and theres alot of privatly owned land that for the most part is desert. So my view is as we gain new tech to deal with living in these places, mass transit for instance, if you could live in the AZ desert and get to work in CA somewhere in an hour, people would take advantage of that. I mean so far, I see company jets come and go from the Sedona airport, but we all cant be flying leer jets to work in another state, lol. I dont think we will have a problem with space, as long as they plan to use some advanced tech to get people to work. And a clean way to deal with the waste issues, and energy. Also Sedona could invest in one of those converter devices, I have a couple previous posts on the device, so we could make some power localy from trash and sewage.
2 Dec 2005 @ 14:07 by rayon : Wish to join
the Zuni expedition!! Yes, the road system seems to feature strongly in your own orbital!! Not much notion of community with Leer jets, do these guys rub shoulders with the locals?? My comment on the space is that in overpopulated countries like UK, there is a need to built UP rather than across, and the needs of all interest groups,usually different cultures, get incorporated somehow. Some schemes are so successful they have been awarded prestigious prizes. What I am saying is, it is a pity, this kind of process cannot be included in your Sedona projects, before the pressure of limitations occurs - it rarely happens this way though. This is an excellent opportunity to invite a European architect/urban design practice to inform an approach, especially at the initial stage of articulation of the whole problem. This way interested parties do not get to describe things convenient to their own ends. The terrible choices we have to make, go with the Sioux or the Leer Jet and have enough integrity to maintain one's sense of Being. Often I find mymself thinking I must start my restaurant franchise chain, it represents a world where the whole person matters and the food, and equipment, furnishings and the ethos is completely geared to the highest consideration of each individual person, including workers etc. This is not based on the latest fad style in the media which feeds only the Ego, but on known factors supporting the physical and the mental - there would be a market attached for local produce, and some items could be tried in the restaurant. There are complex rules (the Indian way) for maintaining high energy, this would be the main informing factor into the Ethos - and the focus would certainly be on Community (not bottles of pills). We have to follow our Dreams Bushman, and I hope you've got yours!!!
2 Dec 2005 @ 18:50 by bushman : Yep,
the dream of dreams, :}
Ya, one thing most the population here in Sedona, don't want to see any buildings, even the place I live is painted to match the shadows the red rocks cast. Almost totaly invisable at dusk. Anyway building up is not an opption out here, although I supose if it was virtualy invisable, they might let you get away with it, yet no one has gone above 40ft. Well if your going to be in town, Ill take you up there to the ruins, just let me know 2 weeks ahead, so I can reserve the guest room. :}
6 Jan 2006 @ 14:43 by rayon : Did some research
Saw the road system for Sedona you mentioned. Yes a problem. I also saw the work of Emilio Ambasz Associates who designed a corporate building for Sedona, 5 years back? in the shape of a brown mountain. Impossible to tell scale and I think it remained at project stage only. On their web site they show extensive advanced experience in ecological master planning and structures. Easy to locate. If the need to preserve the sanctity of your environment is paramount, if it were me I would think v long term into the future regarding a solution and maybe the Town has to undertake an independent environmental impact study. Like if 50 families want to move to Sedona, they should join together and build a mountain shaped condominium. My friend has just been hired from his own practice to work with the world's leading environmental ar chitecture practice. We met at Christmas, he is working now with the first architect I ever worked with - just amazing how these things happen. He told me a funny story about Einstein - who was asked why he did not make notes - Einstein said because - I only have one idea, and work from that!!!
6 Jan 2006 @ 19:19 by bushman : The Fortress?
They built this gigantic hotel and shopping area at this place called the Y, its where the 179 and 89a junction, they used the whole mountain there and put what can only be seen as a gigantic annasazi fortress, goes from the post office all the way to uptown Sedona. Anyway it didnt turn out as the enviormental project they had planed, they found that the bed rock was seperated from the top of the mountain, so they had to remove 20ft of the mountain top to build on it. From the road level it really does look pretty cool, but once your looking down on it you can see its more like a huge scar across the mountain.
10 Jan 2006 @ 16:59 by rayon : My wrong word
mountain shaped condo - wrote in a hurry - sorry. The French have done many high density housing schemes using gradations, some hi some low, when viewed from afar, looking like something other than a tower block. I will check the pic again, but do not recall the Fortress.
22 Feb 2007 @ 00:39 by psamuwry @184.108.40.206 : bella terra permit through
Water Quality Permit for the Bella Terra Wastewater Treatment Plant
WHAT IS AN AQUIFER PROTECTION PERMIT?
An Aquifer Protection Permit, or APP, is a water
quality permit issued by ADEQ. An APP protects
water quality by regulating the amount of discharge to
groundwater allowed by a facility. In this case, the APP
limits the daily discharges from the wastewater treat-
ment plant to less than 25,000 gallons per day. An APP
requires that new facilities use the best available
demonstrated control technology, known as BADCT,
to reduce or eliminate the discharge of pollutants to
groundwater so that the pollutants do not cause or
contribute to a violation of aquifer water quality stan-
dards. In Arizona, aquifer water quality standards are
the same as drinking water standards. The Bella Terra
APP prohibits discharge above the aquifer water quality
standards for more than 40 pollutants. Moreover, the
permit limits actual discharge to the sub-surface
irrigation system to less than 15,000 gallons per day
with a requirement to reuse any amount over 15,000
gallons per day.
WHAT TYPE OF PLANT IN BEING PERMITTED?
The APP is being issued for a wastewater treat-
ment plant in the Bella Terra subdivision near Sedona.
The permit covers day-to-day operation, as well as
closure and post-closure activities at the plant. The
wastewater treatment plant will serve a maximum of
106 homes upon build-out of the subdivision. The
plant will employ a “drip-style” system of discharge.
Large, high-pressure flows from the system are not
allowed under the permit.
WHY IS THIS PLANT BEING ISSUED A PERMIT?
As approved by the Yavapai County Board of
Supervisors in 2006, Bella Terra on Oak Creek is a
proposed new subdivision consisting of 106 lots on
53.5 acres bordering Oak Creek and Carroll Canyon
Wash. Bella Terra is proposing a wastewater treat-
ment plant instead of installing septic tanks in order to
better protect the aquifer and Oak Creek. Arizona
law requires that sewage treatment facilities must
operate under an APP. Based on the number of lots
and occupancy figures, the treatment plant at build
out, or maximum capacity, will generate less than
25,000 gallons of treated wastewater per day. If the
wastewater treatment plant was not built, up to 53
septic systems could be installed in the Bella Terra
subdivision under applicable regulations. The treat-
ment plant will produce one-third of the total nitrogen
that would be produced by those septic systems and
less than one-millionth of the bacteria, including E. Coli.
HOW DOES THE PERMIT PROTECT OAK
The subdivision borders Carroll Canyon Wash and
Oak Creek, a “unique” Arizona surface water.
Protection of water quality in Oak Creek is a top
priority for ADEQ and as a unique water, Oak Creek
is given the highest level of water quality protection.
The permit forbids any discharge from the plant to
Oak Creek and Carroll Canyon Wash. Any discharges
to Oak Creek or Carroll Canyon Wash will violate the
permit and subject Bella Terra’s developer to an
enforcement action by ADEQ. This is the most
protective APP ever issued by ADEQ for a plant of
this size. Indeed, the effluent produced by the plant
must meet the highest water quality standards possible,
known as A+. To further protect Oak Creek and
Carroll Canyon Wash from any impacts, a required
monitoring well, known as a sentinel well, will provide
an “early warning system” before any impacts to Oak
Creek or Carroll Canyon Wash can occur.
DOES THE DEVELOPER HAVE THE PROPER
ZONING IN PLACE?
The development’s zoning and density were
approved by the Yavapai County Board of Supervisors
in 2006. ADEQ was not involved in the County’s zoning
decision for the Bella Terra subdivision.
WHAT TYPE OF PROCESSES WILL THE
PLANT USE TO TREAT WASTEWATER?
Treatment at the plant includes equalization to
distribute the flow for optimal treatment, denitrification,
secondary clarification and tertiary filtration. In addi-
tion, the permit requires ultraviolet disinfection
For more information regarding this permit, please
1110 W. Washington St.
Phoenix, AZ 85007
(602) 771-4578 or
Toll free at (800) 234-5677 Ext. 771-4578
Hearing impaired persons please call
ADEQ's TDD line: (602) 771-4829
Media outlets interested in additional information
regarding this permit should contact:
ADEQ Office of Communications
1110 W. Washington St.
Phoenix, AZ 85007
(602) 771-2215 or
Toll-free: (800) 234-5677 Ext. 771-2215
Hearing-impaired persons please call
ADEQ’s TDD line: (602) 771-4829
instead of disinfection by chlorine to prevent production
of by-products capable of impacting groundwater or
Oak Creek and to eliminate any possibility of exposure
to chlorine gas by community members.
HOW MUCH FINANCIAL CAPABILITY WILL
THE DEVELOPER DEMONSTRATE?
ADEQ has required the developer of Bella Terra
on Oak Creek to demonstrate increased financial
capability in the amount of $600,000 to cover
construction, operation, closure and proper post-closure
care of the wastewater treatment plant.
HOW IS THE PLANT MORE PROTECTIVE
THAN SEPTIC SYSTEMS?
Septic systems use antiquated, 19th century treat-
ment technologies. Wastewater enters the first chamber
of a septic tank, allowing solids to settle and scum to
float. Liquid waste flows through a dividing wall into a
second chamber of the tank where further settlement
takes place, with the excess liquid then draining from
the outlet into the leach field. From the leach field,
contaminants in the liquid waste seep into the soil
and can negatively impact local groundwater. Septic
systems do not treat wastewater or otherwise
remove contaminants. In contrast, a wastewater
treatment plant uses state-of-the-art technology to
remove contaminants from wastewater resulting in
far less nitrogen and bacteria in the environment than
a septic system.
ADEQ estimates conservatively that if the waste-
water treatment plant is not built, 53 septic systems
would serve the homes as approved by the Yavapai
County Board of Supervisors. Those septic systems
would produce nearly three times as much total nitrogen
and over one million times as much bacteria, including
E. Coli, as the wastewater treatment plant.
7 Mar 2007 @ 22:46 by bushman : Yep,
Those are the facts, and the people complaining are discharging thru thier septic tanks individualy, more per day than Bella Terra could do in a month. Its a small hand full of neighbors that seem to have friends in the Sierra club, and the fact that the Sierra club lied to cause work to stop. Bella Terra could set the bar for green communities, and as far as Im concerned the whole state should adopt Bella terras high standards. So these local whinner residendts didn't complain for years when everyone was dumping thier trash down in there, the property was a junk yard for the most part.
Hers a link to the lies spewed by the Sierra club:
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